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Pre-mixing cryogenic fuels and using only one fuel tank
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Can a stoichiometric mixture of oxygen and methane exist as a liquid at standard pressure and some (low) temperature?
How to determine the vapor pressure of a glycerine and propylene glycol mixture?Given the volumes: determine the pH and the final temperature of a mixture knowing only the initial pH and the temperature of the un-mixed componentsCan a solid and liquid be miscible?What elements and/or substances without water are liquid at room temperature?Using vapor mole fraction and pressure to determine liquid mole fractionHow could I find the solubility of hydrocarbons such as iso- and n-Butane in liquid Methane?Interpretation of miscibility curvesIs vapour pressure of a liquid solution constant at a given temperature, no matter the size of closed container and amount of liquid taken?Properties of azeotropesIs there a stable and non-toxic hydro-nitrogen-oxygen compound that's liquid in room temperature?
$begingroup$
This answer to the question Pre-mixing cryogenic fuels and using only one fuel tank written by a non-chemist (me) begins with:
At STP:
- LOX's boiling point is 90.19 K
- Methane's freezing point is 90.7 K
This does not a priori prove that a solution of the two can not exist. However it does mean that they can not be handled as liquids at the same temperature, making mixing the two more difficult.
We know that liquid air exists which shows that LOX and LN2 can mix together. But methane is an organic molecules and we know that heavier $textC_n textH_2n+2$ hydrocarbons include oils and waxes don't like to dissolve in non-organic solvents.
A stoichiometric mixture of oxygen and methane would be 2:1 molar:
$$ce 2O2 + CH4 -> CO2 + 2H2O $$
Though the two can not be conveniently maintained as liquids at the same temperature, can a stoichiometric mixture of the two exist as a liquid at some (low) temperature and standard pressure?
solutions mixtures fuel liquids
asked 4 hours ago
uhohuhoh
1,646839
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This answer to the question Pre-mixing cryogenic fuels and using only one fuel tank written by a non-chemist (me) begins with:
At STP:
- LOX's boiling point is 90.19 K
- Methane's freezing point is 90.7 K
This does not a priori prove that a solution of the two can not exist. However it does mean that they can not be handled as liquids at the same temperature, making mixing the two more difficult.
We know that liquid air exists which shows that LOX and LN2 can mix together. But methane is an organic molecules and we know that heavier $textC_n textH_2n+2$ hydrocarbons include oils and waxes don't like to dissolve in non-organic solvents.
A stoichiometric mixture of oxygen and methane would be 2:1 molar:
$$ce 2O2 + CH4 -> CO2 + 2H2O $$
Though the two can not be conveniently maintained as liquids at the same temperature, can a stoichiometric mixture of the two exist as a liquid at some (low) temperature and standard pressure?
solutions mixtures fuel liquids
asked 4 hours ago
uhohuhoh
1,646839
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
I am not sure if both thesolutionsandmixturestags apply here.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
4 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
With an appropriate heat of mixing, the solution might well be possible. Not sure if there is literature on this mixture, but if I have time I’ll give it a whirl...
$endgroup$
– Jon Custer
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JonCuster I hope "give it a whirl" doesn't mean you're going to try to mix the two!
$endgroup$
– uhoh
3 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
just trying to whip it into a nice froth for my coffee in the morning...
$endgroup$
– Jon Custer
3 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This answer to the question Pre-mixing cryogenic fuels and using only one fuel tank written by a non-chemist (me) begins with:
At STP:
- LOX's boiling point is 90.19 K
- Methane's freezing point is 90.7 K
This does not a priori prove that a solution of the two can not exist. However it does mean that they can not be handled as liquids at the same temperature, making mixing the two more difficult.
We know that liquid air exists which shows that LOX and LN2 can mix together. But methane is an organic molecules and we know that heavier $textC_n textH_2n+2$ hydrocarbons include oils and waxes don't like to dissolve in non-organic solvents.
A stoichiometric mixture of oxygen and methane would be 2:1 molar:
$$ce 2O2 + CH4 -> CO2 + 2H2O $$
Though the two can not be conveniently maintained as liquids at the same temperature, can a stoichiometric mixture of the two exist as a liquid at some (low) temperature and standard pressure?
solutions mixtures fuel liquids
asked 4 hours ago
uhohuhoh
1,646839
$endgroup$
This answer to the question Pre-mixing cryogenic fuels and using only one fuel tank written by a non-chemist (me) begins with:
At STP:
- LOX's boiling point is 90.19 K
- Methane's freezing point is 90.7 K
This does not a priori prove that a solution of the two can not exist. However it does mean that they can not be handled as liquids at the same temperature, making mixing the two more difficult.
We know that liquid air exists which shows that LOX and LN2 can mix together. But methane is an organic molecules and we know that heavier $textC_n textH_2n+2$ hydrocarbons include oils and waxes don't like to dissolve in non-organic solvents.
A stoichiometric mixture of oxygen and methane would be 2:1 molar:
$$ce 2O2 + CH4 -> CO2 + 2H2O $$
Though the two can not be conveniently maintained as liquids at the same temperature, can a stoichiometric mixture of the two exist as a liquid at some (low) temperature and standard pressure?
solutions mixtures fuel liquids
solutions mixtures fuel liquids
asked 4 hours ago
uhohuhoh
1,646839
asked 4 hours ago
uhohuhoh
1,646839
edited 3 hours ago
uhoh
asked 4 hours ago
uhohuhoh
1,646839
asked 4 hours ago
uhohuhoh
1,646839
asked 4 hours ago
uhohuhoh
1,646839
1,646839
1
$begingroup$
I am not sure if both thesolutionsandmixturestags apply here.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
4 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
With an appropriate heat of mixing, the solution might well be possible. Not sure if there is literature on this mixture, but if I have time I’ll give it a whirl...
$endgroup$
– Jon Custer
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JonCuster I hope "give it a whirl" doesn't mean you're going to try to mix the two!
$endgroup$
– uhoh
3 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
just trying to whip it into a nice froth for my coffee in the morning...
$endgroup$
– Jon Custer
3 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
I am not sure if both thesolutionsandmixturestags apply here.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
4 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
With an appropriate heat of mixing, the solution might well be possible. Not sure if there is literature on this mixture, but if I have time I’ll give it a whirl...
$endgroup$
– Jon Custer
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JonCuster I hope "give it a whirl" doesn't mean you're going to try to mix the two!
$endgroup$
– uhoh
3 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
just trying to whip it into a nice froth for my coffee in the morning...
$endgroup$
– Jon Custer
3 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
I am not sure if both the
solutions and mixtures tags apply here.$endgroup$
– uhoh
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I am not sure if both the
solutions and mixtures tags apply here.$endgroup$
– uhoh
4 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
With an appropriate heat of mixing, the solution might well be possible. Not sure if there is literature on this mixture, but if I have time I’ll give it a whirl...
$endgroup$
– Jon Custer
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
With an appropriate heat of mixing, the solution might well be possible. Not sure if there is literature on this mixture, but if I have time I’ll give it a whirl...
$endgroup$
– Jon Custer
3 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@JonCuster I hope "give it a whirl" doesn't mean you're going to try to mix the two!
$endgroup$
– uhoh
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JonCuster I hope "give it a whirl" doesn't mean you're going to try to mix the two!
$endgroup$
– uhoh
3 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
just trying to whip it into a nice froth for my coffee in the morning...
$endgroup$
– Jon Custer
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
just trying to whip it into a nice froth for my coffee in the morning...
$endgroup$
– Jon Custer
3 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
There's a NASA report that looks into this: "ON THE SOLUBILITIES AND RATES OF SOLUTION OF GASES IN LIQUID METHANE", Hibbard and Evans, 1968 and concludes that such mixtures are possible.
Starting on page 8:
Figure 5(a) presents the curves for oxygen, argon, carbon monoxide,
and nitrogen. Also shown are the two experimental values for nitrogen.
Agreement is excellent at 99.83K and good at 110.9K. The curves for
these gases show that solubility should decrease with increasing
temperature and the nitrogen data confirm this. This figure shows the
mole fraction solubility of oxygen to be 1.0 at 90K. This means that
oxygen, which has a normal boiling temperature of 90.1K would
continuously condense in, and be miscible in all proportions, with
liquid methane at 90K. This is confirmed by reference 11 where, in a
study of the solubility of methane in liquid oxygen, it was concluded
that these formed a near-ideal solution at -297 F (90K)
(emphasis added) Reference 11 mentioned in there is "Hydrocarbon-Oxygen Systems Solubility", McKinley and Wang, 1960 (unfortunately paywalled) which also has interesting discussion of the stability (i.e. presence or absence of a tendency to explode) of various mixtures.
Figure 5 is reproduced below. Note how the solubility of oxygen rises rapidly as temperature drops.
answered 38 mins ago
Bob JacobsenBob Jacobsen
1212
New contributor
Bob Jacobsen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Bingo! What a great find, thank you! I think you can (should) also post an answer at the linked question as well.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
30 mins ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
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1 Answer
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1 Answer
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votes
$begingroup$
There's a NASA report that looks into this: "ON THE SOLUBILITIES AND RATES OF SOLUTION OF GASES IN LIQUID METHANE", Hibbard and Evans, 1968 and concludes that such mixtures are possible.
Starting on page 8:
Figure 5(a) presents the curves for oxygen, argon, carbon monoxide,
and nitrogen. Also shown are the two experimental values for nitrogen.
Agreement is excellent at 99.83K and good at 110.9K. The curves for
these gases show that solubility should decrease with increasing
temperature and the nitrogen data confirm this. This figure shows the
mole fraction solubility of oxygen to be 1.0 at 90K. This means that
oxygen, which has a normal boiling temperature of 90.1K would
continuously condense in, and be miscible in all proportions, with
liquid methane at 90K. This is confirmed by reference 11 where, in a
study of the solubility of methane in liquid oxygen, it was concluded
that these formed a near-ideal solution at -297 F (90K)
(emphasis added) Reference 11 mentioned in there is "Hydrocarbon-Oxygen Systems Solubility", McKinley and Wang, 1960 (unfortunately paywalled) which also has interesting discussion of the stability (i.e. presence or absence of a tendency to explode) of various mixtures.
Figure 5 is reproduced below. Note how the solubility of oxygen rises rapidly as temperature drops.
answered 38 mins ago
Bob JacobsenBob Jacobsen
1212
New contributor
Bob Jacobsen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Bingo! What a great find, thank you! I think you can (should) also post an answer at the linked question as well.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
30 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There's a NASA report that looks into this: "ON THE SOLUBILITIES AND RATES OF SOLUTION OF GASES IN LIQUID METHANE", Hibbard and Evans, 1968 and concludes that such mixtures are possible.
Starting on page 8:
Figure 5(a) presents the curves for oxygen, argon, carbon monoxide,
and nitrogen. Also shown are the two experimental values for nitrogen.
Agreement is excellent at 99.83K and good at 110.9K. The curves for
these gases show that solubility should decrease with increasing
temperature and the nitrogen data confirm this. This figure shows the
mole fraction solubility of oxygen to be 1.0 at 90K. This means that
oxygen, which has a normal boiling temperature of 90.1K would
continuously condense in, and be miscible in all proportions, with
liquid methane at 90K. This is confirmed by reference 11 where, in a
study of the solubility of methane in liquid oxygen, it was concluded
that these formed a near-ideal solution at -297 F (90K)
(emphasis added) Reference 11 mentioned in there is "Hydrocarbon-Oxygen Systems Solubility", McKinley and Wang, 1960 (unfortunately paywalled) which also has interesting discussion of the stability (i.e. presence or absence of a tendency to explode) of various mixtures.
Figure 5 is reproduced below. Note how the solubility of oxygen rises rapidly as temperature drops.
answered 38 mins ago
Bob JacobsenBob Jacobsen
1212
New contributor
Bob Jacobsen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Bingo! What a great find, thank you! I think you can (should) also post an answer at the linked question as well.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
30 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There's a NASA report that looks into this: "ON THE SOLUBILITIES AND RATES OF SOLUTION OF GASES IN LIQUID METHANE", Hibbard and Evans, 1968 and concludes that such mixtures are possible.
Starting on page 8:
Figure 5(a) presents the curves for oxygen, argon, carbon monoxide,
and nitrogen. Also shown are the two experimental values for nitrogen.
Agreement is excellent at 99.83K and good at 110.9K. The curves for
these gases show that solubility should decrease with increasing
temperature and the nitrogen data confirm this. This figure shows the
mole fraction solubility of oxygen to be 1.0 at 90K. This means that
oxygen, which has a normal boiling temperature of 90.1K would
continuously condense in, and be miscible in all proportions, with
liquid methane at 90K. This is confirmed by reference 11 where, in a
study of the solubility of methane in liquid oxygen, it was concluded
that these formed a near-ideal solution at -297 F (90K)
(emphasis added) Reference 11 mentioned in there is "Hydrocarbon-Oxygen Systems Solubility", McKinley and Wang, 1960 (unfortunately paywalled) which also has interesting discussion of the stability (i.e. presence or absence of a tendency to explode) of various mixtures.
Figure 5 is reproduced below. Note how the solubility of oxygen rises rapidly as temperature drops.
answered 38 mins ago
Bob JacobsenBob Jacobsen
1212
New contributor
Bob Jacobsen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
There's a NASA report that looks into this: "ON THE SOLUBILITIES AND RATES OF SOLUTION OF GASES IN LIQUID METHANE", Hibbard and Evans, 1968 and concludes that such mixtures are possible.
Starting on page 8:
Figure 5(a) presents the curves for oxygen, argon, carbon monoxide,
and nitrogen. Also shown are the two experimental values for nitrogen.
Agreement is excellent at 99.83K and good at 110.9K. The curves for
these gases show that solubility should decrease with increasing
temperature and the nitrogen data confirm this. This figure shows the
mole fraction solubility of oxygen to be 1.0 at 90K. This means that
oxygen, which has a normal boiling temperature of 90.1K would
continuously condense in, and be miscible in all proportions, with
liquid methane at 90K. This is confirmed by reference 11 where, in a
study of the solubility of methane in liquid oxygen, it was concluded
that these formed a near-ideal solution at -297 F (90K)
(emphasis added) Reference 11 mentioned in there is "Hydrocarbon-Oxygen Systems Solubility", McKinley and Wang, 1960 (unfortunately paywalled) which also has interesting discussion of the stability (i.e. presence or absence of a tendency to explode) of various mixtures.
Figure 5 is reproduced below. Note how the solubility of oxygen rises rapidly as temperature drops.
answered 38 mins ago
Bob JacobsenBob Jacobsen
1212
New contributor
Bob Jacobsen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 9 mins ago
answered 38 mins ago
Bob JacobsenBob Jacobsen
1212
New contributor
Bob Jacobsen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 38 mins ago
Bob JacobsenBob Jacobsen
1212
answered 38 mins ago
Bob JacobsenBob Jacobsen
1212
1212
New contributor
Bob Jacobsen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Bob Jacobsen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Bob Jacobsen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$begingroup$
Bingo! What a great find, thank you! I think you can (should) also post an answer at the linked question as well.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
30 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Bingo! What a great find, thank you! I think you can (should) also post an answer at the linked question as well.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
30 mins ago
$begingroup$
Bingo! What a great find, thank you! I think you can (should) also post an answer at the linked question as well.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
30 mins ago
$begingroup$
Bingo! What a great find, thank you! I think you can (should) also post an answer at the linked question as well.
$endgroup$
– uhoh
30 mins ago
add a comment |
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1
$begingroup$
I am not sure if both the
solutionsandmixturestags apply here.$endgroup$
– uhoh
4 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
With an appropriate heat of mixing, the solution might well be possible. Not sure if there is literature on this mixture, but if I have time I’ll give it a whirl...
$endgroup$
– Jon Custer
3 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JonCuster I hope "give it a whirl" doesn't mean you're going to try to mix the two!
$endgroup$
– uhoh
3 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
just trying to whip it into a nice froth for my coffee in the morning...
$endgroup$
– Jon Custer
3 hours ago