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Employee lack of ownership
How do I tell my colleagues that the codebase they've built is a total mess and their practices are ancient?How do I navigate around a difficult coworker?How to convince my boss that I am the right fit for a new exciting projectHow to encourage team members to share responsibility of presentations?What to do when a manager constantly blames me for project failures and reports this to higher-ups?How can I get a socially awkward team, which lacks good interpersonal skills, communicating more effectively?How to admit I don't know something without making myself look incompetent?coworkers unwilling to do code reviewsHow can we be credited as individuals when pair-working as apprentices?Recruited for senior (SME) technical role but assigned medium-term to much more junior project - how to recover appearance and reputation in company?
I manage 20 software engineers which divide into 4 sub teams. Every team has good work standard and high-level of ownership except one. That team has one senior guy and three juniors. Every time there is a critical bug (impact the business,) this senior guy always pushes the work to next day by saying things like "I can't finish it today," "I will look into it tomorrow," "Do we really need it today?," or "How are we going to test that tonight?" Even when I told him I needed it now, he said he had something else to do and sneaked off when I was not there. He also told these juniors to push back work too.
Last week, I told them in a team meeting that I expect higher level of ownership. If they promise something, they should do it. If there is a critical bug, they must fix it even if they have to stay late.
Today, there is a critical bug and this senior guy said the same thing again - "I can't finish it today. I have a meeting with friends and I have to go." then he sneaked out while I was talking to my manager.
This is not the mentality I want my team to have. I plan to tell him that he has to change his work style or find a new job and wait for the answer. Is it too direct to do that? Is there an alternative way to deal with issues like this?
teamwork it-industry
|
show 8 more comments
I manage 20 software engineers which divide into 4 sub teams. Every team has good work standard and high-level of ownership except one. That team has one senior guy and three juniors. Every time there is a critical bug (impact the business,) this senior guy always pushes the work to next day by saying things like "I can't finish it today," "I will look into it tomorrow," "Do we really need it today?," or "How are we going to test that tonight?" Even when I told him I needed it now, he said he had something else to do and sneaked off when I was not there. He also told these juniors to push back work too.
Last week, I told them in a team meeting that I expect higher level of ownership. If they promise something, they should do it. If there is a critical bug, they must fix it even if they have to stay late.
Today, there is a critical bug and this senior guy said the same thing again - "I can't finish it today. I have a meeting with friends and I have to go." then he sneaked out while I was talking to my manager.
This is not the mentality I want my team to have. I plan to tell him that he has to change his work style or find a new job and wait for the answer. Is it too direct to do that? Is there an alternative way to deal with issues like this?
teamwork it-industry
25
This "critical bug", why does it have to be done today? What will happen if it isn't done today? And what time of day did you tell the team about it?
– DJClayworth
3 hours ago
29
So in all these cases where there was a "critical bug" that wasn't handled until the next day, what was the actual impact?
– sf02
2 hours ago
7
What does the job description and/or his contract say about working hours? Is there a formal after hours support policy for "critical bugs?"
– dwizum
2 hours ago
13
How often is there a "critical bug"? Monthly? Weekly? Daily? Are they actually critical?
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
8
Yeah seeing how the OP didn't get fired yet for repeatedly not fixing "critical" bugs, it seems they're not quite so critical.
– xyious
1 hour ago
|
show 8 more comments
I manage 20 software engineers which divide into 4 sub teams. Every team has good work standard and high-level of ownership except one. That team has one senior guy and three juniors. Every time there is a critical bug (impact the business,) this senior guy always pushes the work to next day by saying things like "I can't finish it today," "I will look into it tomorrow," "Do we really need it today?," or "How are we going to test that tonight?" Even when I told him I needed it now, he said he had something else to do and sneaked off when I was not there. He also told these juniors to push back work too.
Last week, I told them in a team meeting that I expect higher level of ownership. If they promise something, they should do it. If there is a critical bug, they must fix it even if they have to stay late.
Today, there is a critical bug and this senior guy said the same thing again - "I can't finish it today. I have a meeting with friends and I have to go." then he sneaked out while I was talking to my manager.
This is not the mentality I want my team to have. I plan to tell him that he has to change his work style or find a new job and wait for the answer. Is it too direct to do that? Is there an alternative way to deal with issues like this?
teamwork it-industry
I manage 20 software engineers which divide into 4 sub teams. Every team has good work standard and high-level of ownership except one. That team has one senior guy and three juniors. Every time there is a critical bug (impact the business,) this senior guy always pushes the work to next day by saying things like "I can't finish it today," "I will look into it tomorrow," "Do we really need it today?," or "How are we going to test that tonight?" Even when I told him I needed it now, he said he had something else to do and sneaked off when I was not there. He also told these juniors to push back work too.
Last week, I told them in a team meeting that I expect higher level of ownership. If they promise something, they should do it. If there is a critical bug, they must fix it even if they have to stay late.
Today, there is a critical bug and this senior guy said the same thing again - "I can't finish it today. I have a meeting with friends and I have to go." then he sneaked out while I was talking to my manager.
This is not the mentality I want my team to have. I plan to tell him that he has to change his work style or find a new job and wait for the answer. Is it too direct to do that? Is there an alternative way to deal with issues like this?
teamwork it-industry
teamwork it-industry
asked 3 hours ago
Code ProjectCode Project
863249
863249
25
This "critical bug", why does it have to be done today? What will happen if it isn't done today? And what time of day did you tell the team about it?
– DJClayworth
3 hours ago
29
So in all these cases where there was a "critical bug" that wasn't handled until the next day, what was the actual impact?
– sf02
2 hours ago
7
What does the job description and/or his contract say about working hours? Is there a formal after hours support policy for "critical bugs?"
– dwizum
2 hours ago
13
How often is there a "critical bug"? Monthly? Weekly? Daily? Are they actually critical?
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
8
Yeah seeing how the OP didn't get fired yet for repeatedly not fixing "critical" bugs, it seems they're not quite so critical.
– xyious
1 hour ago
|
show 8 more comments
25
This "critical bug", why does it have to be done today? What will happen if it isn't done today? And what time of day did you tell the team about it?
– DJClayworth
3 hours ago
29
So in all these cases where there was a "critical bug" that wasn't handled until the next day, what was the actual impact?
– sf02
2 hours ago
7
What does the job description and/or his contract say about working hours? Is there a formal after hours support policy for "critical bugs?"
– dwizum
2 hours ago
13
How often is there a "critical bug"? Monthly? Weekly? Daily? Are they actually critical?
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
8
Yeah seeing how the OP didn't get fired yet for repeatedly not fixing "critical" bugs, it seems they're not quite so critical.
– xyious
1 hour ago
25
25
This "critical bug", why does it have to be done today? What will happen if it isn't done today? And what time of day did you tell the team about it?
– DJClayworth
3 hours ago
This "critical bug", why does it have to be done today? What will happen if it isn't done today? And what time of day did you tell the team about it?
– DJClayworth
3 hours ago
29
29
So in all these cases where there was a "critical bug" that wasn't handled until the next day, what was the actual impact?
– sf02
2 hours ago
So in all these cases where there was a "critical bug" that wasn't handled until the next day, what was the actual impact?
– sf02
2 hours ago
7
7
What does the job description and/or his contract say about working hours? Is there a formal after hours support policy for "critical bugs?"
– dwizum
2 hours ago
What does the job description and/or his contract say about working hours? Is there a formal after hours support policy for "critical bugs?"
– dwizum
2 hours ago
13
13
How often is there a "critical bug"? Monthly? Weekly? Daily? Are they actually critical?
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
How often is there a "critical bug"? Monthly? Weekly? Daily? Are they actually critical?
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
8
8
Yeah seeing how the OP didn't get fired yet for repeatedly not fixing "critical" bugs, it seems they're not quite so critical.
– xyious
1 hour ago
Yeah seeing how the OP didn't get fired yet for repeatedly not fixing "critical" bugs, it seems they're not quite so critical.
– xyious
1 hour ago
|
show 8 more comments
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
You seem to be confusing two things:
Them working any amount of hours to meet unexpected or unplanned issues.
Them being responsible and providing quality work in a predictable way.
Ownership is not about the team working the whole night to fit your promises to customers. Ownership is about knowing what's in the code, how it works, having a plan and being able to tell you how and when things will be done. Ownership is developers making the right decisions so the code works correclty not just tonight, but in the years to come.
Sorry if this is a bit rough, but I've had too many managers tell me variations off your post. More often than not it boils to:
- lack of clear mandate
- changing requirements
- short term focus
- constant urgency
Would you please elaborate, in the question on what you, as a manager, did to prepare those releases, empower your team, and how you listened to their feedback? Then we can talk about ownership.
5
Bravo! Well said.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
Sometimes it's difficult for me to put my thoughts into words. You've done it very succinctly. Thank you. If I could up-vote this to infinity, I would.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
18
Well said, especially the last point. If everything is urgent, then nothing is.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
While I kind of agree, in principle, IMHO we're ignoring an important fact. If your manager asks you to start fix something TODAY then you DO it today. You do not postpone to tomorrow because you think it can wait, no matters what. You may not finish (because rightly you may not want to work overtime) but you start ASAP, it's not your call. It's near to insubordination and as such you risk to be disciplined.
– Adriano Repetti
1 hour ago
10
@AdrianoRepetti I strongly disagree. Poor planning on my manager's part does not mean life-or-death urgency on my part. Yes, I do what my manager wants to the best of my ability, but I also try to keep my manager's expectations in check. If they are asking me to do something that is unreasonable, I am not going to stress myself out trying to do it.
– David K
55 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
Even when I told him I needed it now, he said he had something else to do and sneaked off when I was not there.
Today, there is a critical bug and this senior guy said the same thing again - "I can't finish it today. I have a meeting with friends and I have to go." then he sneaked out while I was talking to my manager.
In both of these examples, you refer to him as sneaking off, but by your own words he told you that he wasn't going to do this work and then didn't do it. Sneaking off implies he's being deceptive or dishonest, but it sounds like he's being transparent, and you ought to recognize that. I've worked with people who say they'll handle things and then disappear, and those people deserve to be fired. Someone who informs you of their bandwidth and then follows through is different entirely. This person's integrity isn't an issue; he is only unemployable if his results aren't sufficient.
Last week, I told them in a team meeting that I expect higher level of ownership. If they promise something, they should do it. If there is a critical bug, they must fix it even if they have to stay late.
This is a reasonable statement and a level of ownership that senior engineers should generally accept with some caveats:
- Critical bugs must actually be critical. For example, in my own career I have stayed late to fix "critical" bugs that were then not deployed into production for two months. In those cases, it was a manager freaking out about something and wanting it now instead of actually a critical bug. Of course, there have been actually critical issues as well.
- Staffing levels must be generally sufficient. Meeting release dates and fixing issues are important, but if we are always late because we have 3 people doing 4+ people's work, that's a different situation.
Is there an alternative way to deal with issues like this?
Some development methodologies have built-in ways to manage these issues. In Agile development, for example, sprints are ways of promising what work will be delivered. It also includes built-in ways of measuring velocity (the amount of work being accomplished) and usually goes along with software (JIRA is the most popular one I believe) that makes whether or not a team or individuals are meeting those goals. In agile development, if you need to change course mid-sprint - like take time to fix a critical bug - it reflects that you're changing the scope inherently. Normally, you take things out in order to add whatever it is that must be added. This process makes it really easy to evaluate whether "I can't get to it today" is because he's working hard on other important goals or that he is just being difficult.
IMO, it's a fantastic method of software development that unfortunately is almost never done correctly.
I agree with most of your comment but I'm not sure Agile applies here. I'm assuming when the OP says "critical bug" he means something that has come up in released software that really has to be fixed right now (e.g. the recent Facebook outage... I suspect a lot of people were burning the midnight oil). It's true that Agile will let you measure impact on the schedule but OP doesn't even mention the existing work schedule.
– DaveG
1 hour ago
2
+1 for "Critical bugs must actually be critical." Just last week I saw a "critical" item that was ultimately ranked 6th in priority... I've learned, for better or worse, that "critical" is a word which can just be ignored.
– zarose
14 mins ago
add a comment |
Working in software this is very common.
You treat your people as professionals. You're talking ownership but then giving demands that a 'critical' bug must be fixed NOW.
Is the bug actually 'critical'?
Is it the result of unclear requirements?
Our old friend 'scope-creep'?
In each of these you (as the manager) need to manage expectations. Not every bug is 'critical'. Requirements can suck. Project scope changes.
Instead of demanding they drop everything for something 'critical' work with your teams to when it will be fixed. Then hold them to this estimate.
I've been putting 'critical' in quotes because after 30+ years in this field (yikes I'm old) this term is very misused. Everything can not be 'critical'.
Holding people to their estimate is pointless - it's called an estimate because they don't actually know when it'll be fixed.
– Erik
57 mins ago
@Erik In that case they should know exactly what went wrong to cause their estimate to be off.
– JMac
34 mins ago
1
@JMac when it's solved they will know what was wrong and where the time went, if you want to have a retrospective. But until it's solved they can only tell you what the time has gone to trying (or what other obligations have gotten in the way), and maybe their current hunch for what to check / try next. Some discussion along the way can be productive and insight can come even from the act of conversation; but there's a point where discussion and reporting itself become a self-defeating source of delay.
– Chris Stratton
24 mins ago
add a comment |
When are people most productive? When is the team most able to handle critical bugs?
There have been studies that answer said questions to when humans are best able to handle certain tasks.
You have a critical bug, and you want, a) Sr. to switch mental gears, b) Pick up a new "critical" task, c) work "till whenever" to fix it. And you expect this critical patch to work? Honestly, what do you expect for the product, the team, the team members if your wants were satisified?
Let go of your ego, and your irrational beliefs.
add a comment |
It sounds to me that he simply places a higher value on being away from the office than in it.
There are many reasons why, and a good manager would not simply assume the worst. Perhaps he's having personal issues at home, be it a relationship, sickness, whatever other stresses.
Perhaps he is growing dissatisfied with the job and simply doesn't care anymore.
There are many reasons why he may be acting as he does. I'd suggest seeing if there is something that you'd want to give extra grace for before you rip into him too much, or discipline him.
13
Or perhaps he believes that he is only being paid for a certain amount of his time, and doesn't want to do extra work without being paid for it?
– DJClayworth
3 hours ago
4
@Keith I think it's noteworthy that the members who "have ownership" are "juniors"—they probably have less awareness as to how to push back when your boss is trying to encroach on your work-life balance.
– Jérémie
2 hours ago
5
And juniors often have fewer family commitments and think its cool to be asked to work late. Seniors often have other priorities, like family.
– DJClayworth
2 hours ago
3
We're missing a big part of the picture here, which is how often these "critical" problems are occurring. If people are being asked to work late daily or weekly, management has a serious problem that it needs to resolve.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
3
Commitment does not correlate with hours worked. You can be committed to doing excellent work and not want to work overtime.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
It seems that it's time to put this whole team on notice. If they do not start meeting guidlelines, clear guidelines, they will be terminated.
You can accomplish this by establishing guidelines around bugs/issues that are reported against what they support. For example a priority 1 bug must be started work within 1 hour, progress reported to management (you) every hour after that, until bug is either fixed or a work around in place to your satisfaction. The to your satisfaction is key, and you must support them and the other teams with getting things done when the work flows past normal working hours by being present or highly available yourself.
When they bug out and go home, then they failed to meet your requirements to work on the issue and check in every hour. This is now measurable. These guidelines would have to be met by other teams as well.
Now when they fail to meet these requirements once, they go on notice, formally written notice, CC to your manager and HR that they failed to meet their obligations. Second time, you report again, inform team that a third incident is grounds for termination. Third time, fired.
Now I am guessing this senior developer has some critical knowledge that he/she assumes makes them invaluable. Nobody is that valuable and this sends that message. They are not supporting the company, the company will no longer support them.
Expect some fallout if it comes to termination. They do indeed possess knowledge that is going to take some effort to get up to speed with others. Make sure the Jr. developers know these policies, if they can start pulling the weight even if their Sr. bails on them, then they will be able to keep things going when you terminate the troublemaker.
2
This approach is a sure way to earn your shop a reputation as a great place for software developers to avoid. "Build projects around motivated individuals. Give them the environment and support they need, and trust them to get the job done." (agilemanifesto.org) That's the way to go.
– Bill Horvath
59 mins ago
4
Normally, I might agree with you. However, OP's statementEvery time there is a critical bug...makes it painfully clear this happens pretty often. And that tells me that the OP is quite possibly failing at their job and putting pressure in places it doesn't belong. Personally I think the OP needs to reevaluate why they are deploying code that is this buggy to production and perhaps figure out how to fix that before firing people. In other words I'm trying to understand why a place with 20 devs doesn't have proper testing or even an actual production team to handle these issues.
– NotMe
53 mins ago
add a comment |
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6 Answers
6
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6 Answers
6
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oldest
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active
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active
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votes
You seem to be confusing two things:
Them working any amount of hours to meet unexpected or unplanned issues.
Them being responsible and providing quality work in a predictable way.
Ownership is not about the team working the whole night to fit your promises to customers. Ownership is about knowing what's in the code, how it works, having a plan and being able to tell you how and when things will be done. Ownership is developers making the right decisions so the code works correclty not just tonight, but in the years to come.
Sorry if this is a bit rough, but I've had too many managers tell me variations off your post. More often than not it boils to:
- lack of clear mandate
- changing requirements
- short term focus
- constant urgency
Would you please elaborate, in the question on what you, as a manager, did to prepare those releases, empower your team, and how you listened to their feedback? Then we can talk about ownership.
5
Bravo! Well said.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
Sometimes it's difficult for me to put my thoughts into words. You've done it very succinctly. Thank you. If I could up-vote this to infinity, I would.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
18
Well said, especially the last point. If everything is urgent, then nothing is.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
While I kind of agree, in principle, IMHO we're ignoring an important fact. If your manager asks you to start fix something TODAY then you DO it today. You do not postpone to tomorrow because you think it can wait, no matters what. You may not finish (because rightly you may not want to work overtime) but you start ASAP, it's not your call. It's near to insubordination and as such you risk to be disciplined.
– Adriano Repetti
1 hour ago
10
@AdrianoRepetti I strongly disagree. Poor planning on my manager's part does not mean life-or-death urgency on my part. Yes, I do what my manager wants to the best of my ability, but I also try to keep my manager's expectations in check. If they are asking me to do something that is unreasonable, I am not going to stress myself out trying to do it.
– David K
55 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
You seem to be confusing two things:
Them working any amount of hours to meet unexpected or unplanned issues.
Them being responsible and providing quality work in a predictable way.
Ownership is not about the team working the whole night to fit your promises to customers. Ownership is about knowing what's in the code, how it works, having a plan and being able to tell you how and when things will be done. Ownership is developers making the right decisions so the code works correclty not just tonight, but in the years to come.
Sorry if this is a bit rough, but I've had too many managers tell me variations off your post. More often than not it boils to:
- lack of clear mandate
- changing requirements
- short term focus
- constant urgency
Would you please elaborate, in the question on what you, as a manager, did to prepare those releases, empower your team, and how you listened to their feedback? Then we can talk about ownership.
5
Bravo! Well said.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
Sometimes it's difficult for me to put my thoughts into words. You've done it very succinctly. Thank you. If I could up-vote this to infinity, I would.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
18
Well said, especially the last point. If everything is urgent, then nothing is.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
While I kind of agree, in principle, IMHO we're ignoring an important fact. If your manager asks you to start fix something TODAY then you DO it today. You do not postpone to tomorrow because you think it can wait, no matters what. You may not finish (because rightly you may not want to work overtime) but you start ASAP, it's not your call. It's near to insubordination and as such you risk to be disciplined.
– Adriano Repetti
1 hour ago
10
@AdrianoRepetti I strongly disagree. Poor planning on my manager's part does not mean life-or-death urgency on my part. Yes, I do what my manager wants to the best of my ability, but I also try to keep my manager's expectations in check. If they are asking me to do something that is unreasonable, I am not going to stress myself out trying to do it.
– David K
55 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
You seem to be confusing two things:
Them working any amount of hours to meet unexpected or unplanned issues.
Them being responsible and providing quality work in a predictable way.
Ownership is not about the team working the whole night to fit your promises to customers. Ownership is about knowing what's in the code, how it works, having a plan and being able to tell you how and when things will be done. Ownership is developers making the right decisions so the code works correclty not just tonight, but in the years to come.
Sorry if this is a bit rough, but I've had too many managers tell me variations off your post. More often than not it boils to:
- lack of clear mandate
- changing requirements
- short term focus
- constant urgency
Would you please elaborate, in the question on what you, as a manager, did to prepare those releases, empower your team, and how you listened to their feedback? Then we can talk about ownership.
You seem to be confusing two things:
Them working any amount of hours to meet unexpected or unplanned issues.
Them being responsible and providing quality work in a predictable way.
Ownership is not about the team working the whole night to fit your promises to customers. Ownership is about knowing what's in the code, how it works, having a plan and being able to tell you how and when things will be done. Ownership is developers making the right decisions so the code works correclty not just tonight, but in the years to come.
Sorry if this is a bit rough, but I've had too many managers tell me variations off your post. More often than not it boils to:
- lack of clear mandate
- changing requirements
- short term focus
- constant urgency
Would you please elaborate, in the question on what you, as a manager, did to prepare those releases, empower your team, and how you listened to their feedback? Then we can talk about ownership.
answered 3 hours ago
JeffreyJeffrey
669313
669313
5
Bravo! Well said.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
Sometimes it's difficult for me to put my thoughts into words. You've done it very succinctly. Thank you. If I could up-vote this to infinity, I would.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
18
Well said, especially the last point. If everything is urgent, then nothing is.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
While I kind of agree, in principle, IMHO we're ignoring an important fact. If your manager asks you to start fix something TODAY then you DO it today. You do not postpone to tomorrow because you think it can wait, no matters what. You may not finish (because rightly you may not want to work overtime) but you start ASAP, it's not your call. It's near to insubordination and as such you risk to be disciplined.
– Adriano Repetti
1 hour ago
10
@AdrianoRepetti I strongly disagree. Poor planning on my manager's part does not mean life-or-death urgency on my part. Yes, I do what my manager wants to the best of my ability, but I also try to keep my manager's expectations in check. If they are asking me to do something that is unreasonable, I am not going to stress myself out trying to do it.
– David K
55 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
5
Bravo! Well said.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
Sometimes it's difficult for me to put my thoughts into words. You've done it very succinctly. Thank you. If I could up-vote this to infinity, I would.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
18
Well said, especially the last point. If everything is urgent, then nothing is.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
While I kind of agree, in principle, IMHO we're ignoring an important fact. If your manager asks you to start fix something TODAY then you DO it today. You do not postpone to tomorrow because you think it can wait, no matters what. You may not finish (because rightly you may not want to work overtime) but you start ASAP, it's not your call. It's near to insubordination and as such you risk to be disciplined.
– Adriano Repetti
1 hour ago
10
@AdrianoRepetti I strongly disagree. Poor planning on my manager's part does not mean life-or-death urgency on my part. Yes, I do what my manager wants to the best of my ability, but I also try to keep my manager's expectations in check. If they are asking me to do something that is unreasonable, I am not going to stress myself out trying to do it.
– David K
55 mins ago
5
5
Bravo! Well said.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
Bravo! Well said.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
Sometimes it's difficult for me to put my thoughts into words. You've done it very succinctly. Thank you. If I could up-vote this to infinity, I would.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
Sometimes it's difficult for me to put my thoughts into words. You've done it very succinctly. Thank you. If I could up-vote this to infinity, I would.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
18
18
Well said, especially the last point. If everything is urgent, then nothing is.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
Well said, especially the last point. If everything is urgent, then nothing is.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
While I kind of agree, in principle, IMHO we're ignoring an important fact. If your manager asks you to start fix something TODAY then you DO it today. You do not postpone to tomorrow because you think it can wait, no matters what. You may not finish (because rightly you may not want to work overtime) but you start ASAP, it's not your call. It's near to insubordination and as such you risk to be disciplined.
– Adriano Repetti
1 hour ago
While I kind of agree, in principle, IMHO we're ignoring an important fact. If your manager asks you to start fix something TODAY then you DO it today. You do not postpone to tomorrow because you think it can wait, no matters what. You may not finish (because rightly you may not want to work overtime) but you start ASAP, it's not your call. It's near to insubordination and as such you risk to be disciplined.
– Adriano Repetti
1 hour ago
10
10
@AdrianoRepetti I strongly disagree. Poor planning on my manager's part does not mean life-or-death urgency on my part. Yes, I do what my manager wants to the best of my ability, but I also try to keep my manager's expectations in check. If they are asking me to do something that is unreasonable, I am not going to stress myself out trying to do it.
– David K
55 mins ago
@AdrianoRepetti I strongly disagree. Poor planning on my manager's part does not mean life-or-death urgency on my part. Yes, I do what my manager wants to the best of my ability, but I also try to keep my manager's expectations in check. If they are asking me to do something that is unreasonable, I am not going to stress myself out trying to do it.
– David K
55 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
Even when I told him I needed it now, he said he had something else to do and sneaked off when I was not there.
Today, there is a critical bug and this senior guy said the same thing again - "I can't finish it today. I have a meeting with friends and I have to go." then he sneaked out while I was talking to my manager.
In both of these examples, you refer to him as sneaking off, but by your own words he told you that he wasn't going to do this work and then didn't do it. Sneaking off implies he's being deceptive or dishonest, but it sounds like he's being transparent, and you ought to recognize that. I've worked with people who say they'll handle things and then disappear, and those people deserve to be fired. Someone who informs you of their bandwidth and then follows through is different entirely. This person's integrity isn't an issue; he is only unemployable if his results aren't sufficient.
Last week, I told them in a team meeting that I expect higher level of ownership. If they promise something, they should do it. If there is a critical bug, they must fix it even if they have to stay late.
This is a reasonable statement and a level of ownership that senior engineers should generally accept with some caveats:
- Critical bugs must actually be critical. For example, in my own career I have stayed late to fix "critical" bugs that were then not deployed into production for two months. In those cases, it was a manager freaking out about something and wanting it now instead of actually a critical bug. Of course, there have been actually critical issues as well.
- Staffing levels must be generally sufficient. Meeting release dates and fixing issues are important, but if we are always late because we have 3 people doing 4+ people's work, that's a different situation.
Is there an alternative way to deal with issues like this?
Some development methodologies have built-in ways to manage these issues. In Agile development, for example, sprints are ways of promising what work will be delivered. It also includes built-in ways of measuring velocity (the amount of work being accomplished) and usually goes along with software (JIRA is the most popular one I believe) that makes whether or not a team or individuals are meeting those goals. In agile development, if you need to change course mid-sprint - like take time to fix a critical bug - it reflects that you're changing the scope inherently. Normally, you take things out in order to add whatever it is that must be added. This process makes it really easy to evaluate whether "I can't get to it today" is because he's working hard on other important goals or that he is just being difficult.
IMO, it's a fantastic method of software development that unfortunately is almost never done correctly.
I agree with most of your comment but I'm not sure Agile applies here. I'm assuming when the OP says "critical bug" he means something that has come up in released software that really has to be fixed right now (e.g. the recent Facebook outage... I suspect a lot of people were burning the midnight oil). It's true that Agile will let you measure impact on the schedule but OP doesn't even mention the existing work schedule.
– DaveG
1 hour ago
2
+1 for "Critical bugs must actually be critical." Just last week I saw a "critical" item that was ultimately ranked 6th in priority... I've learned, for better or worse, that "critical" is a word which can just be ignored.
– zarose
14 mins ago
add a comment |
Even when I told him I needed it now, he said he had something else to do and sneaked off when I was not there.
Today, there is a critical bug and this senior guy said the same thing again - "I can't finish it today. I have a meeting with friends and I have to go." then he sneaked out while I was talking to my manager.
In both of these examples, you refer to him as sneaking off, but by your own words he told you that he wasn't going to do this work and then didn't do it. Sneaking off implies he's being deceptive or dishonest, but it sounds like he's being transparent, and you ought to recognize that. I've worked with people who say they'll handle things and then disappear, and those people deserve to be fired. Someone who informs you of their bandwidth and then follows through is different entirely. This person's integrity isn't an issue; he is only unemployable if his results aren't sufficient.
Last week, I told them in a team meeting that I expect higher level of ownership. If they promise something, they should do it. If there is a critical bug, they must fix it even if they have to stay late.
This is a reasonable statement and a level of ownership that senior engineers should generally accept with some caveats:
- Critical bugs must actually be critical. For example, in my own career I have stayed late to fix "critical" bugs that were then not deployed into production for two months. In those cases, it was a manager freaking out about something and wanting it now instead of actually a critical bug. Of course, there have been actually critical issues as well.
- Staffing levels must be generally sufficient. Meeting release dates and fixing issues are important, but if we are always late because we have 3 people doing 4+ people's work, that's a different situation.
Is there an alternative way to deal with issues like this?
Some development methodologies have built-in ways to manage these issues. In Agile development, for example, sprints are ways of promising what work will be delivered. It also includes built-in ways of measuring velocity (the amount of work being accomplished) and usually goes along with software (JIRA is the most popular one I believe) that makes whether or not a team or individuals are meeting those goals. In agile development, if you need to change course mid-sprint - like take time to fix a critical bug - it reflects that you're changing the scope inherently. Normally, you take things out in order to add whatever it is that must be added. This process makes it really easy to evaluate whether "I can't get to it today" is because he's working hard on other important goals or that he is just being difficult.
IMO, it's a fantastic method of software development that unfortunately is almost never done correctly.
I agree with most of your comment but I'm not sure Agile applies here. I'm assuming when the OP says "critical bug" he means something that has come up in released software that really has to be fixed right now (e.g. the recent Facebook outage... I suspect a lot of people were burning the midnight oil). It's true that Agile will let you measure impact on the schedule but OP doesn't even mention the existing work schedule.
– DaveG
1 hour ago
2
+1 for "Critical bugs must actually be critical." Just last week I saw a "critical" item that was ultimately ranked 6th in priority... I've learned, for better or worse, that "critical" is a word which can just be ignored.
– zarose
14 mins ago
add a comment |
Even when I told him I needed it now, he said he had something else to do and sneaked off when I was not there.
Today, there is a critical bug and this senior guy said the same thing again - "I can't finish it today. I have a meeting with friends and I have to go." then he sneaked out while I was talking to my manager.
In both of these examples, you refer to him as sneaking off, but by your own words he told you that he wasn't going to do this work and then didn't do it. Sneaking off implies he's being deceptive or dishonest, but it sounds like he's being transparent, and you ought to recognize that. I've worked with people who say they'll handle things and then disappear, and those people deserve to be fired. Someone who informs you of their bandwidth and then follows through is different entirely. This person's integrity isn't an issue; he is only unemployable if his results aren't sufficient.
Last week, I told them in a team meeting that I expect higher level of ownership. If they promise something, they should do it. If there is a critical bug, they must fix it even if they have to stay late.
This is a reasonable statement and a level of ownership that senior engineers should generally accept with some caveats:
- Critical bugs must actually be critical. For example, in my own career I have stayed late to fix "critical" bugs that were then not deployed into production for two months. In those cases, it was a manager freaking out about something and wanting it now instead of actually a critical bug. Of course, there have been actually critical issues as well.
- Staffing levels must be generally sufficient. Meeting release dates and fixing issues are important, but if we are always late because we have 3 people doing 4+ people's work, that's a different situation.
Is there an alternative way to deal with issues like this?
Some development methodologies have built-in ways to manage these issues. In Agile development, for example, sprints are ways of promising what work will be delivered. It also includes built-in ways of measuring velocity (the amount of work being accomplished) and usually goes along with software (JIRA is the most popular one I believe) that makes whether or not a team or individuals are meeting those goals. In agile development, if you need to change course mid-sprint - like take time to fix a critical bug - it reflects that you're changing the scope inherently. Normally, you take things out in order to add whatever it is that must be added. This process makes it really easy to evaluate whether "I can't get to it today" is because he's working hard on other important goals or that he is just being difficult.
IMO, it's a fantastic method of software development that unfortunately is almost never done correctly.
Even when I told him I needed it now, he said he had something else to do and sneaked off when I was not there.
Today, there is a critical bug and this senior guy said the same thing again - "I can't finish it today. I have a meeting with friends and I have to go." then he sneaked out while I was talking to my manager.
In both of these examples, you refer to him as sneaking off, but by your own words he told you that he wasn't going to do this work and then didn't do it. Sneaking off implies he's being deceptive or dishonest, but it sounds like he's being transparent, and you ought to recognize that. I've worked with people who say they'll handle things and then disappear, and those people deserve to be fired. Someone who informs you of their bandwidth and then follows through is different entirely. This person's integrity isn't an issue; he is only unemployable if his results aren't sufficient.
Last week, I told them in a team meeting that I expect higher level of ownership. If they promise something, they should do it. If there is a critical bug, they must fix it even if they have to stay late.
This is a reasonable statement and a level of ownership that senior engineers should generally accept with some caveats:
- Critical bugs must actually be critical. For example, in my own career I have stayed late to fix "critical" bugs that were then not deployed into production for two months. In those cases, it was a manager freaking out about something and wanting it now instead of actually a critical bug. Of course, there have been actually critical issues as well.
- Staffing levels must be generally sufficient. Meeting release dates and fixing issues are important, but if we are always late because we have 3 people doing 4+ people's work, that's a different situation.
Is there an alternative way to deal with issues like this?
Some development methodologies have built-in ways to manage these issues. In Agile development, for example, sprints are ways of promising what work will be delivered. It also includes built-in ways of measuring velocity (the amount of work being accomplished) and usually goes along with software (JIRA is the most popular one I believe) that makes whether or not a team or individuals are meeting those goals. In agile development, if you need to change course mid-sprint - like take time to fix a critical bug - it reflects that you're changing the scope inherently. Normally, you take things out in order to add whatever it is that must be added. This process makes it really easy to evaluate whether "I can't get to it today" is because he's working hard on other important goals or that he is just being difficult.
IMO, it's a fantastic method of software development that unfortunately is almost never done correctly.
answered 2 hours ago
dbeerdbeer
7,53951527
7,53951527
I agree with most of your comment but I'm not sure Agile applies here. I'm assuming when the OP says "critical bug" he means something that has come up in released software that really has to be fixed right now (e.g. the recent Facebook outage... I suspect a lot of people were burning the midnight oil). It's true that Agile will let you measure impact on the schedule but OP doesn't even mention the existing work schedule.
– DaveG
1 hour ago
2
+1 for "Critical bugs must actually be critical." Just last week I saw a "critical" item that was ultimately ranked 6th in priority... I've learned, for better or worse, that "critical" is a word which can just be ignored.
– zarose
14 mins ago
add a comment |
I agree with most of your comment but I'm not sure Agile applies here. I'm assuming when the OP says "critical bug" he means something that has come up in released software that really has to be fixed right now (e.g. the recent Facebook outage... I suspect a lot of people were burning the midnight oil). It's true that Agile will let you measure impact on the schedule but OP doesn't even mention the existing work schedule.
– DaveG
1 hour ago
2
+1 for "Critical bugs must actually be critical." Just last week I saw a "critical" item that was ultimately ranked 6th in priority... I've learned, for better or worse, that "critical" is a word which can just be ignored.
– zarose
14 mins ago
I agree with most of your comment but I'm not sure Agile applies here. I'm assuming when the OP says "critical bug" he means something that has come up in released software that really has to be fixed right now (e.g. the recent Facebook outage... I suspect a lot of people were burning the midnight oil). It's true that Agile will let you measure impact on the schedule but OP doesn't even mention the existing work schedule.
– DaveG
1 hour ago
I agree with most of your comment but I'm not sure Agile applies here. I'm assuming when the OP says "critical bug" he means something that has come up in released software that really has to be fixed right now (e.g. the recent Facebook outage... I suspect a lot of people were burning the midnight oil). It's true that Agile will let you measure impact on the schedule but OP doesn't even mention the existing work schedule.
– DaveG
1 hour ago
2
2
+1 for "Critical bugs must actually be critical." Just last week I saw a "critical" item that was ultimately ranked 6th in priority... I've learned, for better or worse, that "critical" is a word which can just be ignored.
– zarose
14 mins ago
+1 for "Critical bugs must actually be critical." Just last week I saw a "critical" item that was ultimately ranked 6th in priority... I've learned, for better or worse, that "critical" is a word which can just be ignored.
– zarose
14 mins ago
add a comment |
Working in software this is very common.
You treat your people as professionals. You're talking ownership but then giving demands that a 'critical' bug must be fixed NOW.
Is the bug actually 'critical'?
Is it the result of unclear requirements?
Our old friend 'scope-creep'?
In each of these you (as the manager) need to manage expectations. Not every bug is 'critical'. Requirements can suck. Project scope changes.
Instead of demanding they drop everything for something 'critical' work with your teams to when it will be fixed. Then hold them to this estimate.
I've been putting 'critical' in quotes because after 30+ years in this field (yikes I'm old) this term is very misused. Everything can not be 'critical'.
Holding people to their estimate is pointless - it's called an estimate because they don't actually know when it'll be fixed.
– Erik
57 mins ago
@Erik In that case they should know exactly what went wrong to cause their estimate to be off.
– JMac
34 mins ago
1
@JMac when it's solved they will know what was wrong and where the time went, if you want to have a retrospective. But until it's solved they can only tell you what the time has gone to trying (or what other obligations have gotten in the way), and maybe their current hunch for what to check / try next. Some discussion along the way can be productive and insight can come even from the act of conversation; but there's a point where discussion and reporting itself become a self-defeating source of delay.
– Chris Stratton
24 mins ago
add a comment |
Working in software this is very common.
You treat your people as professionals. You're talking ownership but then giving demands that a 'critical' bug must be fixed NOW.
Is the bug actually 'critical'?
Is it the result of unclear requirements?
Our old friend 'scope-creep'?
In each of these you (as the manager) need to manage expectations. Not every bug is 'critical'. Requirements can suck. Project scope changes.
Instead of demanding they drop everything for something 'critical' work with your teams to when it will be fixed. Then hold them to this estimate.
I've been putting 'critical' in quotes because after 30+ years in this field (yikes I'm old) this term is very misused. Everything can not be 'critical'.
Holding people to their estimate is pointless - it's called an estimate because they don't actually know when it'll be fixed.
– Erik
57 mins ago
@Erik In that case they should know exactly what went wrong to cause their estimate to be off.
– JMac
34 mins ago
1
@JMac when it's solved they will know what was wrong and where the time went, if you want to have a retrospective. But until it's solved they can only tell you what the time has gone to trying (or what other obligations have gotten in the way), and maybe their current hunch for what to check / try next. Some discussion along the way can be productive and insight can come even from the act of conversation; but there's a point where discussion and reporting itself become a self-defeating source of delay.
– Chris Stratton
24 mins ago
add a comment |
Working in software this is very common.
You treat your people as professionals. You're talking ownership but then giving demands that a 'critical' bug must be fixed NOW.
Is the bug actually 'critical'?
Is it the result of unclear requirements?
Our old friend 'scope-creep'?
In each of these you (as the manager) need to manage expectations. Not every bug is 'critical'. Requirements can suck. Project scope changes.
Instead of demanding they drop everything for something 'critical' work with your teams to when it will be fixed. Then hold them to this estimate.
I've been putting 'critical' in quotes because after 30+ years in this field (yikes I'm old) this term is very misused. Everything can not be 'critical'.
Working in software this is very common.
You treat your people as professionals. You're talking ownership but then giving demands that a 'critical' bug must be fixed NOW.
Is the bug actually 'critical'?
Is it the result of unclear requirements?
Our old friend 'scope-creep'?
In each of these you (as the manager) need to manage expectations. Not every bug is 'critical'. Requirements can suck. Project scope changes.
Instead of demanding they drop everything for something 'critical' work with your teams to when it will be fixed. Then hold them to this estimate.
I've been putting 'critical' in quotes because after 30+ years in this field (yikes I'm old) this term is very misused. Everything can not be 'critical'.
answered 1 hour ago
JimmyBJimmyB
4,4121724
4,4121724
Holding people to their estimate is pointless - it's called an estimate because they don't actually know when it'll be fixed.
– Erik
57 mins ago
@Erik In that case they should know exactly what went wrong to cause their estimate to be off.
– JMac
34 mins ago
1
@JMac when it's solved they will know what was wrong and where the time went, if you want to have a retrospective. But until it's solved they can only tell you what the time has gone to trying (or what other obligations have gotten in the way), and maybe their current hunch for what to check / try next. Some discussion along the way can be productive and insight can come even from the act of conversation; but there's a point where discussion and reporting itself become a self-defeating source of delay.
– Chris Stratton
24 mins ago
add a comment |
Holding people to their estimate is pointless - it's called an estimate because they don't actually know when it'll be fixed.
– Erik
57 mins ago
@Erik In that case they should know exactly what went wrong to cause their estimate to be off.
– JMac
34 mins ago
1
@JMac when it's solved they will know what was wrong and where the time went, if you want to have a retrospective. But until it's solved they can only tell you what the time has gone to trying (or what other obligations have gotten in the way), and maybe their current hunch for what to check / try next. Some discussion along the way can be productive and insight can come even from the act of conversation; but there's a point where discussion and reporting itself become a self-defeating source of delay.
– Chris Stratton
24 mins ago
Holding people to their estimate is pointless - it's called an estimate because they don't actually know when it'll be fixed.
– Erik
57 mins ago
Holding people to their estimate is pointless - it's called an estimate because they don't actually know when it'll be fixed.
– Erik
57 mins ago
@Erik In that case they should know exactly what went wrong to cause their estimate to be off.
– JMac
34 mins ago
@Erik In that case they should know exactly what went wrong to cause their estimate to be off.
– JMac
34 mins ago
1
1
@JMac when it's solved they will know what was wrong and where the time went, if you want to have a retrospective. But until it's solved they can only tell you what the time has gone to trying (or what other obligations have gotten in the way), and maybe their current hunch for what to check / try next. Some discussion along the way can be productive and insight can come even from the act of conversation; but there's a point where discussion and reporting itself become a self-defeating source of delay.
– Chris Stratton
24 mins ago
@JMac when it's solved they will know what was wrong and where the time went, if you want to have a retrospective. But until it's solved they can only tell you what the time has gone to trying (or what other obligations have gotten in the way), and maybe their current hunch for what to check / try next. Some discussion along the way can be productive and insight can come even from the act of conversation; but there's a point where discussion and reporting itself become a self-defeating source of delay.
– Chris Stratton
24 mins ago
add a comment |
When are people most productive? When is the team most able to handle critical bugs?
There have been studies that answer said questions to when humans are best able to handle certain tasks.
You have a critical bug, and you want, a) Sr. to switch mental gears, b) Pick up a new "critical" task, c) work "till whenever" to fix it. And you expect this critical patch to work? Honestly, what do you expect for the product, the team, the team members if your wants were satisified?
Let go of your ego, and your irrational beliefs.
add a comment |
When are people most productive? When is the team most able to handle critical bugs?
There have been studies that answer said questions to when humans are best able to handle certain tasks.
You have a critical bug, and you want, a) Sr. to switch mental gears, b) Pick up a new "critical" task, c) work "till whenever" to fix it. And you expect this critical patch to work? Honestly, what do you expect for the product, the team, the team members if your wants were satisified?
Let go of your ego, and your irrational beliefs.
add a comment |
When are people most productive? When is the team most able to handle critical bugs?
There have been studies that answer said questions to when humans are best able to handle certain tasks.
You have a critical bug, and you want, a) Sr. to switch mental gears, b) Pick up a new "critical" task, c) work "till whenever" to fix it. And you expect this critical patch to work? Honestly, what do you expect for the product, the team, the team members if your wants were satisified?
Let go of your ego, and your irrational beliefs.
When are people most productive? When is the team most able to handle critical bugs?
There have been studies that answer said questions to when humans are best able to handle certain tasks.
You have a critical bug, and you want, a) Sr. to switch mental gears, b) Pick up a new "critical" task, c) work "till whenever" to fix it. And you expect this critical patch to work? Honestly, what do you expect for the product, the team, the team members if your wants were satisified?
Let go of your ego, and your irrational beliefs.
answered 1 hour ago
pauljpaulj
59517
59517
add a comment |
add a comment |
It sounds to me that he simply places a higher value on being away from the office than in it.
There are many reasons why, and a good manager would not simply assume the worst. Perhaps he's having personal issues at home, be it a relationship, sickness, whatever other stresses.
Perhaps he is growing dissatisfied with the job and simply doesn't care anymore.
There are many reasons why he may be acting as he does. I'd suggest seeing if there is something that you'd want to give extra grace for before you rip into him too much, or discipline him.
13
Or perhaps he believes that he is only being paid for a certain amount of his time, and doesn't want to do extra work without being paid for it?
– DJClayworth
3 hours ago
4
@Keith I think it's noteworthy that the members who "have ownership" are "juniors"—they probably have less awareness as to how to push back when your boss is trying to encroach on your work-life balance.
– Jérémie
2 hours ago
5
And juniors often have fewer family commitments and think its cool to be asked to work late. Seniors often have other priorities, like family.
– DJClayworth
2 hours ago
3
We're missing a big part of the picture here, which is how often these "critical" problems are occurring. If people are being asked to work late daily or weekly, management has a serious problem that it needs to resolve.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
3
Commitment does not correlate with hours worked. You can be committed to doing excellent work and not want to work overtime.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
It sounds to me that he simply places a higher value on being away from the office than in it.
There are many reasons why, and a good manager would not simply assume the worst. Perhaps he's having personal issues at home, be it a relationship, sickness, whatever other stresses.
Perhaps he is growing dissatisfied with the job and simply doesn't care anymore.
There are many reasons why he may be acting as he does. I'd suggest seeing if there is something that you'd want to give extra grace for before you rip into him too much, or discipline him.
13
Or perhaps he believes that he is only being paid for a certain amount of his time, and doesn't want to do extra work without being paid for it?
– DJClayworth
3 hours ago
4
@Keith I think it's noteworthy that the members who "have ownership" are "juniors"—they probably have less awareness as to how to push back when your boss is trying to encroach on your work-life balance.
– Jérémie
2 hours ago
5
And juniors often have fewer family commitments and think its cool to be asked to work late. Seniors often have other priorities, like family.
– DJClayworth
2 hours ago
3
We're missing a big part of the picture here, which is how often these "critical" problems are occurring. If people are being asked to work late daily or weekly, management has a serious problem that it needs to resolve.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
3
Commitment does not correlate with hours worked. You can be committed to doing excellent work and not want to work overtime.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
It sounds to me that he simply places a higher value on being away from the office than in it.
There are many reasons why, and a good manager would not simply assume the worst. Perhaps he's having personal issues at home, be it a relationship, sickness, whatever other stresses.
Perhaps he is growing dissatisfied with the job and simply doesn't care anymore.
There are many reasons why he may be acting as he does. I'd suggest seeing if there is something that you'd want to give extra grace for before you rip into him too much, or discipline him.
It sounds to me that he simply places a higher value on being away from the office than in it.
There are many reasons why, and a good manager would not simply assume the worst. Perhaps he's having personal issues at home, be it a relationship, sickness, whatever other stresses.
Perhaps he is growing dissatisfied with the job and simply doesn't care anymore.
There are many reasons why he may be acting as he does. I'd suggest seeing if there is something that you'd want to give extra grace for before you rip into him too much, or discipline him.
answered 3 hours ago
KeithKeith
5788
5788
13
Or perhaps he believes that he is only being paid for a certain amount of his time, and doesn't want to do extra work without being paid for it?
– DJClayworth
3 hours ago
4
@Keith I think it's noteworthy that the members who "have ownership" are "juniors"—they probably have less awareness as to how to push back when your boss is trying to encroach on your work-life balance.
– Jérémie
2 hours ago
5
And juniors often have fewer family commitments and think its cool to be asked to work late. Seniors often have other priorities, like family.
– DJClayworth
2 hours ago
3
We're missing a big part of the picture here, which is how often these "critical" problems are occurring. If people are being asked to work late daily or weekly, management has a serious problem that it needs to resolve.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
3
Commitment does not correlate with hours worked. You can be committed to doing excellent work and not want to work overtime.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
13
Or perhaps he believes that he is only being paid for a certain amount of his time, and doesn't want to do extra work without being paid for it?
– DJClayworth
3 hours ago
4
@Keith I think it's noteworthy that the members who "have ownership" are "juniors"—they probably have less awareness as to how to push back when your boss is trying to encroach on your work-life balance.
– Jérémie
2 hours ago
5
And juniors often have fewer family commitments and think its cool to be asked to work late. Seniors often have other priorities, like family.
– DJClayworth
2 hours ago
3
We're missing a big part of the picture here, which is how often these "critical" problems are occurring. If people are being asked to work late daily or weekly, management has a serious problem that it needs to resolve.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
3
Commitment does not correlate with hours worked. You can be committed to doing excellent work and not want to work overtime.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
13
13
Or perhaps he believes that he is only being paid for a certain amount of his time, and doesn't want to do extra work without being paid for it?
– DJClayworth
3 hours ago
Or perhaps he believes that he is only being paid for a certain amount of his time, and doesn't want to do extra work without being paid for it?
– DJClayworth
3 hours ago
4
4
@Keith I think it's noteworthy that the members who "have ownership" are "juniors"—they probably have less awareness as to how to push back when your boss is trying to encroach on your work-life balance.
– Jérémie
2 hours ago
@Keith I think it's noteworthy that the members who "have ownership" are "juniors"—they probably have less awareness as to how to push back when your boss is trying to encroach on your work-life balance.
– Jérémie
2 hours ago
5
5
And juniors often have fewer family commitments and think its cool to be asked to work late. Seniors often have other priorities, like family.
– DJClayworth
2 hours ago
And juniors often have fewer family commitments and think its cool to be asked to work late. Seniors often have other priorities, like family.
– DJClayworth
2 hours ago
3
3
We're missing a big part of the picture here, which is how often these "critical" problems are occurring. If people are being asked to work late daily or weekly, management has a serious problem that it needs to resolve.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
We're missing a big part of the picture here, which is how often these "critical" problems are occurring. If people are being asked to work late daily or weekly, management has a serious problem that it needs to resolve.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
3
3
Commitment does not correlate with hours worked. You can be committed to doing excellent work and not want to work overtime.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
Commitment does not correlate with hours worked. You can be committed to doing excellent work and not want to work overtime.
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
It seems that it's time to put this whole team on notice. If they do not start meeting guidlelines, clear guidelines, they will be terminated.
You can accomplish this by establishing guidelines around bugs/issues that are reported against what they support. For example a priority 1 bug must be started work within 1 hour, progress reported to management (you) every hour after that, until bug is either fixed or a work around in place to your satisfaction. The to your satisfaction is key, and you must support them and the other teams with getting things done when the work flows past normal working hours by being present or highly available yourself.
When they bug out and go home, then they failed to meet your requirements to work on the issue and check in every hour. This is now measurable. These guidelines would have to be met by other teams as well.
Now when they fail to meet these requirements once, they go on notice, formally written notice, CC to your manager and HR that they failed to meet their obligations. Second time, you report again, inform team that a third incident is grounds for termination. Third time, fired.
Now I am guessing this senior developer has some critical knowledge that he/she assumes makes them invaluable. Nobody is that valuable and this sends that message. They are not supporting the company, the company will no longer support them.
Expect some fallout if it comes to termination. They do indeed possess knowledge that is going to take some effort to get up to speed with others. Make sure the Jr. developers know these policies, if they can start pulling the weight even if their Sr. bails on them, then they will be able to keep things going when you terminate the troublemaker.
2
This approach is a sure way to earn your shop a reputation as a great place for software developers to avoid. "Build projects around motivated individuals. Give them the environment and support they need, and trust them to get the job done." (agilemanifesto.org) That's the way to go.
– Bill Horvath
59 mins ago
4
Normally, I might agree with you. However, OP's statementEvery time there is a critical bug...makes it painfully clear this happens pretty often. And that tells me that the OP is quite possibly failing at their job and putting pressure in places it doesn't belong. Personally I think the OP needs to reevaluate why they are deploying code that is this buggy to production and perhaps figure out how to fix that before firing people. In other words I'm trying to understand why a place with 20 devs doesn't have proper testing or even an actual production team to handle these issues.
– NotMe
53 mins ago
add a comment |
It seems that it's time to put this whole team on notice. If they do not start meeting guidlelines, clear guidelines, they will be terminated.
You can accomplish this by establishing guidelines around bugs/issues that are reported against what they support. For example a priority 1 bug must be started work within 1 hour, progress reported to management (you) every hour after that, until bug is either fixed or a work around in place to your satisfaction. The to your satisfaction is key, and you must support them and the other teams with getting things done when the work flows past normal working hours by being present or highly available yourself.
When they bug out and go home, then they failed to meet your requirements to work on the issue and check in every hour. This is now measurable. These guidelines would have to be met by other teams as well.
Now when they fail to meet these requirements once, they go on notice, formally written notice, CC to your manager and HR that they failed to meet their obligations. Second time, you report again, inform team that a third incident is grounds for termination. Third time, fired.
Now I am guessing this senior developer has some critical knowledge that he/she assumes makes them invaluable. Nobody is that valuable and this sends that message. They are not supporting the company, the company will no longer support them.
Expect some fallout if it comes to termination. They do indeed possess knowledge that is going to take some effort to get up to speed with others. Make sure the Jr. developers know these policies, if they can start pulling the weight even if their Sr. bails on them, then they will be able to keep things going when you terminate the troublemaker.
2
This approach is a sure way to earn your shop a reputation as a great place for software developers to avoid. "Build projects around motivated individuals. Give them the environment and support they need, and trust them to get the job done." (agilemanifesto.org) That's the way to go.
– Bill Horvath
59 mins ago
4
Normally, I might agree with you. However, OP's statementEvery time there is a critical bug...makes it painfully clear this happens pretty often. And that tells me that the OP is quite possibly failing at their job and putting pressure in places it doesn't belong. Personally I think the OP needs to reevaluate why they are deploying code that is this buggy to production and perhaps figure out how to fix that before firing people. In other words I'm trying to understand why a place with 20 devs doesn't have proper testing or even an actual production team to handle these issues.
– NotMe
53 mins ago
add a comment |
It seems that it's time to put this whole team on notice. If they do not start meeting guidlelines, clear guidelines, they will be terminated.
You can accomplish this by establishing guidelines around bugs/issues that are reported against what they support. For example a priority 1 bug must be started work within 1 hour, progress reported to management (you) every hour after that, until bug is either fixed or a work around in place to your satisfaction. The to your satisfaction is key, and you must support them and the other teams with getting things done when the work flows past normal working hours by being present or highly available yourself.
When they bug out and go home, then they failed to meet your requirements to work on the issue and check in every hour. This is now measurable. These guidelines would have to be met by other teams as well.
Now when they fail to meet these requirements once, they go on notice, formally written notice, CC to your manager and HR that they failed to meet their obligations. Second time, you report again, inform team that a third incident is grounds for termination. Third time, fired.
Now I am guessing this senior developer has some critical knowledge that he/she assumes makes them invaluable. Nobody is that valuable and this sends that message. They are not supporting the company, the company will no longer support them.
Expect some fallout if it comes to termination. They do indeed possess knowledge that is going to take some effort to get up to speed with others. Make sure the Jr. developers know these policies, if they can start pulling the weight even if their Sr. bails on them, then they will be able to keep things going when you terminate the troublemaker.
It seems that it's time to put this whole team on notice. If they do not start meeting guidlelines, clear guidelines, they will be terminated.
You can accomplish this by establishing guidelines around bugs/issues that are reported against what they support. For example a priority 1 bug must be started work within 1 hour, progress reported to management (you) every hour after that, until bug is either fixed or a work around in place to your satisfaction. The to your satisfaction is key, and you must support them and the other teams with getting things done when the work flows past normal working hours by being present or highly available yourself.
When they bug out and go home, then they failed to meet your requirements to work on the issue and check in every hour. This is now measurable. These guidelines would have to be met by other teams as well.
Now when they fail to meet these requirements once, they go on notice, formally written notice, CC to your manager and HR that they failed to meet their obligations. Second time, you report again, inform team that a third incident is grounds for termination. Third time, fired.
Now I am guessing this senior developer has some critical knowledge that he/she assumes makes them invaluable. Nobody is that valuable and this sends that message. They are not supporting the company, the company will no longer support them.
Expect some fallout if it comes to termination. They do indeed possess knowledge that is going to take some effort to get up to speed with others. Make sure the Jr. developers know these policies, if they can start pulling the weight even if their Sr. bails on them, then they will be able to keep things going when you terminate the troublemaker.
answered 1 hour ago
Bill LeeperBill Leeper
12.6k3039
12.6k3039
2
This approach is a sure way to earn your shop a reputation as a great place for software developers to avoid. "Build projects around motivated individuals. Give them the environment and support they need, and trust them to get the job done." (agilemanifesto.org) That's the way to go.
– Bill Horvath
59 mins ago
4
Normally, I might agree with you. However, OP's statementEvery time there is a critical bug...makes it painfully clear this happens pretty often. And that tells me that the OP is quite possibly failing at their job and putting pressure in places it doesn't belong. Personally I think the OP needs to reevaluate why they are deploying code that is this buggy to production and perhaps figure out how to fix that before firing people. In other words I'm trying to understand why a place with 20 devs doesn't have proper testing or even an actual production team to handle these issues.
– NotMe
53 mins ago
add a comment |
2
This approach is a sure way to earn your shop a reputation as a great place for software developers to avoid. "Build projects around motivated individuals. Give them the environment and support they need, and trust them to get the job done." (agilemanifesto.org) That's the way to go.
– Bill Horvath
59 mins ago
4
Normally, I might agree with you. However, OP's statementEvery time there is a critical bug...makes it painfully clear this happens pretty often. And that tells me that the OP is quite possibly failing at their job and putting pressure in places it doesn't belong. Personally I think the OP needs to reevaluate why they are deploying code that is this buggy to production and perhaps figure out how to fix that before firing people. In other words I'm trying to understand why a place with 20 devs doesn't have proper testing or even an actual production team to handle these issues.
– NotMe
53 mins ago
2
2
This approach is a sure way to earn your shop a reputation as a great place for software developers to avoid. "Build projects around motivated individuals. Give them the environment and support they need, and trust them to get the job done." (agilemanifesto.org) That's the way to go.
– Bill Horvath
59 mins ago
This approach is a sure way to earn your shop a reputation as a great place for software developers to avoid. "Build projects around motivated individuals. Give them the environment and support they need, and trust them to get the job done." (agilemanifesto.org) That's the way to go.
– Bill Horvath
59 mins ago
4
4
Normally, I might agree with you. However, OP's statement
Every time there is a critical bug... makes it painfully clear this happens pretty often. And that tells me that the OP is quite possibly failing at their job and putting pressure in places it doesn't belong. Personally I think the OP needs to reevaluate why they are deploying code that is this buggy to production and perhaps figure out how to fix that before firing people. In other words I'm trying to understand why a place with 20 devs doesn't have proper testing or even an actual production team to handle these issues.– NotMe
53 mins ago
Normally, I might agree with you. However, OP's statement
Every time there is a critical bug... makes it painfully clear this happens pretty often. And that tells me that the OP is quite possibly failing at their job and putting pressure in places it doesn't belong. Personally I think the OP needs to reevaluate why they are deploying code that is this buggy to production and perhaps figure out how to fix that before firing people. In other words I'm trying to understand why a place with 20 devs doesn't have proper testing or even an actual production team to handle these issues.– NotMe
53 mins ago
add a comment |
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25
This "critical bug", why does it have to be done today? What will happen if it isn't done today? And what time of day did you tell the team about it?
– DJClayworth
3 hours ago
29
So in all these cases where there was a "critical bug" that wasn't handled until the next day, what was the actual impact?
– sf02
2 hours ago
7
What does the job description and/or his contract say about working hours? Is there a formal after hours support policy for "critical bugs?"
– dwizum
2 hours ago
13
How often is there a "critical bug"? Monthly? Weekly? Daily? Are they actually critical?
– 17 of 26
2 hours ago
8
Yeah seeing how the OP didn't get fired yet for repeatedly not fixing "critical" bugs, it seems they're not quite so critical.
– xyious
1 hour ago