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Airplane gently rocking its wings during whole flight



The Next CEO of Stack OverflowWhy do wings of passenger jet go dark during a flight?How do wings generate lift?Why did the CL-400 Suntan have engines on the ends of its wings?What would be the lift formula for straight wings?Why do wall-to-wall airfoils in wind tunnels produce no (or infinitesimal) downwash?Are aircraft wings airtight?What creates most drag during flight: fuselage or wings?Strut braced or wire braced airplane wings?Does the Lilium VTOL wings produces lift during takeoff?Wing Shape: Long/Wide Span Wings vs Deep Wings










1












$begingroup$


I was on a flight with a regional airline a while ago in a Bombardier airplane (if I recall correctly) where the airplane would slowly and gently rock its wings just a little bit on the whole flight. I wasn't a long flight but wasn't very short either at roughly 2 hours.



It was very comfortable and the rocking made for a very gentle cradle feeling 🙂



My question is, why would that be? Is it economical to do so for any reason? Is it possible that the airplane had no autopilot and the pilot was flying it by hand? What could cause such a behaviour?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Sounds like the dutch roll mode was working. Were you high and fast at the time?
    $endgroup$
    – MikeY
    2 hours ago















1












$begingroup$


I was on a flight with a regional airline a while ago in a Bombardier airplane (if I recall correctly) where the airplane would slowly and gently rock its wings just a little bit on the whole flight. I wasn't a long flight but wasn't very short either at roughly 2 hours.



It was very comfortable and the rocking made for a very gentle cradle feeling 🙂



My question is, why would that be? Is it economical to do so for any reason? Is it possible that the airplane had no autopilot and the pilot was flying it by hand? What could cause such a behaviour?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Sounds like the dutch roll mode was working. Were you high and fast at the time?
    $endgroup$
    – MikeY
    2 hours ago













1












1








1





$begingroup$


I was on a flight with a regional airline a while ago in a Bombardier airplane (if I recall correctly) where the airplane would slowly and gently rock its wings just a little bit on the whole flight. I wasn't a long flight but wasn't very short either at roughly 2 hours.



It was very comfortable and the rocking made for a very gentle cradle feeling 🙂



My question is, why would that be? Is it economical to do so for any reason? Is it possible that the airplane had no autopilot and the pilot was flying it by hand? What could cause such a behaviour?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$




I was on a flight with a regional airline a while ago in a Bombardier airplane (if I recall correctly) where the airplane would slowly and gently rock its wings just a little bit on the whole flight. I wasn't a long flight but wasn't very short either at roughly 2 hours.



It was very comfortable and the rocking made for a very gentle cradle feeling 🙂



My question is, why would that be? Is it economical to do so for any reason? Is it possible that the airplane had no autopilot and the pilot was flying it by hand? What could cause such a behaviour?







aerodynamics wing economics






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 2 hours ago









Délisson JunioDélisson Junio

377414




377414











  • $begingroup$
    Sounds like the dutch roll mode was working. Were you high and fast at the time?
    $endgroup$
    – MikeY
    2 hours ago
















  • $begingroup$
    Sounds like the dutch roll mode was working. Were you high and fast at the time?
    $endgroup$
    – MikeY
    2 hours ago















$begingroup$
Sounds like the dutch roll mode was working. Were you high and fast at the time?
$endgroup$
– MikeY
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
Sounds like the dutch roll mode was working. Were you high and fast at the time?
$endgroup$
– MikeY
2 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

I can give you two theories. One is it's a very very mild case of "overcontrolling" of the autopilot roll servo as it chases a perfectly wings level condition and continuously applies a teeny bit too much left, ooops, then a teeny bit too much right, oops, and back and forth.



The aileron control circuit is cables running to hydraulics at the ailerons, with a spring loaded roller in a curvy V shaped cam device that centers each side of the aileron cable circuit. The breakout force to move the control circuit out of neutral (forcing the roller from the center V of the cam) is fairly high and this can actually be a problem for pilots hand flying at higher speeds where the ailerons are quite snappy - applying enough force to break out the circuit and move the wheel left gives too much, and back the other way... too much... and back and forth you go. It can be a pain.



The autopilot servo is basically a little electric winch connected into the aileron cable circuit, doing the same thing the pilot does. It could be that something in the electronic control loop, or mechanically within the servo, can cause this back and forth oscillation on some airplanes, sometimes. It may be related to wear and backlash within the autopilot servo.



The other theory is it's more or less something similar, but in the yaw mode with the yaw damper not able to fully dampen out a dutch roll mode because the amplitude was within the yaw damper's sensitivity band. Dutch roll is rolling due to yaw, which in swept wing jets is very strong, such that it can set up continuous self energizing oscillation. It could also be related to wear and backlash in the yaw damper actuator, which is a pair of electric linear actuators (little electric screw jacks), in the push rods going to the rudder hydraulics.



If you saw the wing tip just going straight up and down, it's mostly likely the first theory. If you could see the winglet moving in a little circle (indicating rolling and yawing), it's more likely the second theory.



I can really only theorize because the issue was never fully explored on the RJ program as this phenomenon was random, very minor and not dangerous, and was never complained about by operators because only someone sitting near the wings that can look straight out at the winglet ever notices it. It was never bad enough to get anyone sick for example, at least on the RJ fleet.






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    1 Answer
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    1 Answer
    1






    active

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    active

    oldest

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    active

    oldest

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    2












    $begingroup$

    I can give you two theories. One is it's a very very mild case of "overcontrolling" of the autopilot roll servo as it chases a perfectly wings level condition and continuously applies a teeny bit too much left, ooops, then a teeny bit too much right, oops, and back and forth.



    The aileron control circuit is cables running to hydraulics at the ailerons, with a spring loaded roller in a curvy V shaped cam device that centers each side of the aileron cable circuit. The breakout force to move the control circuit out of neutral (forcing the roller from the center V of the cam) is fairly high and this can actually be a problem for pilots hand flying at higher speeds where the ailerons are quite snappy - applying enough force to break out the circuit and move the wheel left gives too much, and back the other way... too much... and back and forth you go. It can be a pain.



    The autopilot servo is basically a little electric winch connected into the aileron cable circuit, doing the same thing the pilot does. It could be that something in the electronic control loop, or mechanically within the servo, can cause this back and forth oscillation on some airplanes, sometimes. It may be related to wear and backlash within the autopilot servo.



    The other theory is it's more or less something similar, but in the yaw mode with the yaw damper not able to fully dampen out a dutch roll mode because the amplitude was within the yaw damper's sensitivity band. Dutch roll is rolling due to yaw, which in swept wing jets is very strong, such that it can set up continuous self energizing oscillation. It could also be related to wear and backlash in the yaw damper actuator, which is a pair of electric linear actuators (little electric screw jacks), in the push rods going to the rudder hydraulics.



    If you saw the wing tip just going straight up and down, it's mostly likely the first theory. If you could see the winglet moving in a little circle (indicating rolling and yawing), it's more likely the second theory.



    I can really only theorize because the issue was never fully explored on the RJ program as this phenomenon was random, very minor and not dangerous, and was never complained about by operators because only someone sitting near the wings that can look straight out at the winglet ever notices it. It was never bad enough to get anyone sick for example, at least on the RJ fleet.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$

















      2












      $begingroup$

      I can give you two theories. One is it's a very very mild case of "overcontrolling" of the autopilot roll servo as it chases a perfectly wings level condition and continuously applies a teeny bit too much left, ooops, then a teeny bit too much right, oops, and back and forth.



      The aileron control circuit is cables running to hydraulics at the ailerons, with a spring loaded roller in a curvy V shaped cam device that centers each side of the aileron cable circuit. The breakout force to move the control circuit out of neutral (forcing the roller from the center V of the cam) is fairly high and this can actually be a problem for pilots hand flying at higher speeds where the ailerons are quite snappy - applying enough force to break out the circuit and move the wheel left gives too much, and back the other way... too much... and back and forth you go. It can be a pain.



      The autopilot servo is basically a little electric winch connected into the aileron cable circuit, doing the same thing the pilot does. It could be that something in the electronic control loop, or mechanically within the servo, can cause this back and forth oscillation on some airplanes, sometimes. It may be related to wear and backlash within the autopilot servo.



      The other theory is it's more or less something similar, but in the yaw mode with the yaw damper not able to fully dampen out a dutch roll mode because the amplitude was within the yaw damper's sensitivity band. Dutch roll is rolling due to yaw, which in swept wing jets is very strong, such that it can set up continuous self energizing oscillation. It could also be related to wear and backlash in the yaw damper actuator, which is a pair of electric linear actuators (little electric screw jacks), in the push rods going to the rudder hydraulics.



      If you saw the wing tip just going straight up and down, it's mostly likely the first theory. If you could see the winglet moving in a little circle (indicating rolling and yawing), it's more likely the second theory.



      I can really only theorize because the issue was never fully explored on the RJ program as this phenomenon was random, very minor and not dangerous, and was never complained about by operators because only someone sitting near the wings that can look straight out at the winglet ever notices it. It was never bad enough to get anyone sick for example, at least on the RJ fleet.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$















        2












        2








        2





        $begingroup$

        I can give you two theories. One is it's a very very mild case of "overcontrolling" of the autopilot roll servo as it chases a perfectly wings level condition and continuously applies a teeny bit too much left, ooops, then a teeny bit too much right, oops, and back and forth.



        The aileron control circuit is cables running to hydraulics at the ailerons, with a spring loaded roller in a curvy V shaped cam device that centers each side of the aileron cable circuit. The breakout force to move the control circuit out of neutral (forcing the roller from the center V of the cam) is fairly high and this can actually be a problem for pilots hand flying at higher speeds where the ailerons are quite snappy - applying enough force to break out the circuit and move the wheel left gives too much, and back the other way... too much... and back and forth you go. It can be a pain.



        The autopilot servo is basically a little electric winch connected into the aileron cable circuit, doing the same thing the pilot does. It could be that something in the electronic control loop, or mechanically within the servo, can cause this back and forth oscillation on some airplanes, sometimes. It may be related to wear and backlash within the autopilot servo.



        The other theory is it's more or less something similar, but in the yaw mode with the yaw damper not able to fully dampen out a dutch roll mode because the amplitude was within the yaw damper's sensitivity band. Dutch roll is rolling due to yaw, which in swept wing jets is very strong, such that it can set up continuous self energizing oscillation. It could also be related to wear and backlash in the yaw damper actuator, which is a pair of electric linear actuators (little electric screw jacks), in the push rods going to the rudder hydraulics.



        If you saw the wing tip just going straight up and down, it's mostly likely the first theory. If you could see the winglet moving in a little circle (indicating rolling and yawing), it's more likely the second theory.



        I can really only theorize because the issue was never fully explored on the RJ program as this phenomenon was random, very minor and not dangerous, and was never complained about by operators because only someone sitting near the wings that can look straight out at the winglet ever notices it. It was never bad enough to get anyone sick for example, at least on the RJ fleet.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        I can give you two theories. One is it's a very very mild case of "overcontrolling" of the autopilot roll servo as it chases a perfectly wings level condition and continuously applies a teeny bit too much left, ooops, then a teeny bit too much right, oops, and back and forth.



        The aileron control circuit is cables running to hydraulics at the ailerons, with a spring loaded roller in a curvy V shaped cam device that centers each side of the aileron cable circuit. The breakout force to move the control circuit out of neutral (forcing the roller from the center V of the cam) is fairly high and this can actually be a problem for pilots hand flying at higher speeds where the ailerons are quite snappy - applying enough force to break out the circuit and move the wheel left gives too much, and back the other way... too much... and back and forth you go. It can be a pain.



        The autopilot servo is basically a little electric winch connected into the aileron cable circuit, doing the same thing the pilot does. It could be that something in the electronic control loop, or mechanically within the servo, can cause this back and forth oscillation on some airplanes, sometimes. It may be related to wear and backlash within the autopilot servo.



        The other theory is it's more or less something similar, but in the yaw mode with the yaw damper not able to fully dampen out a dutch roll mode because the amplitude was within the yaw damper's sensitivity band. Dutch roll is rolling due to yaw, which in swept wing jets is very strong, such that it can set up continuous self energizing oscillation. It could also be related to wear and backlash in the yaw damper actuator, which is a pair of electric linear actuators (little electric screw jacks), in the push rods going to the rudder hydraulics.



        If you saw the wing tip just going straight up and down, it's mostly likely the first theory. If you could see the winglet moving in a little circle (indicating rolling and yawing), it's more likely the second theory.



        I can really only theorize because the issue was never fully explored on the RJ program as this phenomenon was random, very minor and not dangerous, and was never complained about by operators because only someone sitting near the wings that can look straight out at the winglet ever notices it. It was never bad enough to get anyone sick for example, at least on the RJ fleet.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 1 hour ago









        John KJohn K

        23.5k13368




        23.5k13368



























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