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How is the claim “I am in New York only if I am in America” the same as "If I am in New York, then I am in America?


What is the difference between “necessary” and “sufficient”?What are the truth tables for “necessary” and “sufficient”?What is a good argument against “ad populum”?What distinguishes logical necessity, logical consequence, logical truth, and tautology from one another?Connectives, polarity and logical atoms in Linear logicPeirce's law, law of the excluded middle, and intuitionism.Syllogistic Logic: Negation of a Categorical Proposition?Are there exceptions to the principle of the excluded middle?How can you rewrite without any conditionals 'If A then B; A; therefore B' ?Formal Logic: Truth-Value AnalysisCan one think outside of logical rules? If so how?Modus Ponens as Substitute for Syllogism













8















It makes absolutely zero sense to me.



It would make sense if "I am in America" is the antecedent and the consequent is the former.



Even though it wouldn't be sound, it would make logical sense.



I hope someone could explain it in a way someone would to a beginner in logic.



Thanks










share|improve this question









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  • 1





    Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    10 hours ago












  • I made an edit which you may roll back or further edit.

    – Frank Hubeny
    9 hours ago






  • 10





    Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

    – Richard II
    7 hours ago











  • Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

    – Mark Schultheiss
    3 hours ago











  • @MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

    – user34150
    2 hours ago
















8















It makes absolutely zero sense to me.



It would make sense if "I am in America" is the antecedent and the consequent is the former.



Even though it wouldn't be sound, it would make logical sense.



I hope someone could explain it in a way someone would to a beginner in logic.



Thanks










share|improve this question









New contributor




MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 1





    Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    10 hours ago












  • I made an edit which you may roll back or further edit.

    – Frank Hubeny
    9 hours ago






  • 10





    Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

    – Richard II
    7 hours ago











  • Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

    – Mark Schultheiss
    3 hours ago











  • @MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

    – user34150
    2 hours ago














8












8








8








It makes absolutely zero sense to me.



It would make sense if "I am in America" is the antecedent and the consequent is the former.



Even though it wouldn't be sound, it would make logical sense.



I hope someone could explain it in a way someone would to a beginner in logic.



Thanks










share|improve this question









New contributor




MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












It makes absolutely zero sense to me.



It would make sense if "I am in America" is the antecedent and the consequent is the former.



Even though it wouldn't be sound, it would make logical sense.



I hope someone could explain it in a way someone would to a beginner in logic.



Thanks







logic






share|improve this question









New contributor




MinigameZ more is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




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share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 9 hours ago









Frank Hubeny

9,89251555




9,89251555






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asked 10 hours ago









MinigameZ moreMinigameZ more

8615




8615




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New contributor





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  • 1





    Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    10 hours ago












  • I made an edit which you may roll back or further edit.

    – Frank Hubeny
    9 hours ago






  • 10





    Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

    – Richard II
    7 hours ago











  • Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

    – Mark Schultheiss
    3 hours ago











  • @MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

    – user34150
    2 hours ago













  • 1





    Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    10 hours ago












  • I made an edit which you may roll back or further edit.

    – Frank Hubeny
    9 hours ago






  • 10





    Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

    – Richard II
    7 hours ago











  • Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

    – Mark Schultheiss
    3 hours ago











  • @MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

    – user34150
    2 hours ago








1




1





Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
10 hours ago






Already discussed many times on this site; see e.g. what-is-the-difference-between-necessary-and-sufficient as well as what-are-the-truth-tables-for-necessary-and-sufficient

– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
10 hours ago














I made an edit which you may roll back or further edit.

– Frank Hubeny
9 hours ago





I made an edit which you may roll back or further edit.

– Frank Hubeny
9 hours ago




10




10





Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

– Richard II
7 hours ago





Are you perhaps interpreting the word "only" to be qualifying New York? A comma would help to clarify, as would an appropriate pause in the spoken sentence. In other words, do you understand this sentence to be "I am in New York, only if I am in America" or "I am in New York only, if I am in America." If you understood it to be the latter, then I agree that it is illogical. If you understood it to be the former, then hopefully the existing answers have helped you.

– Richard II
7 hours ago













Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

– Mark Schultheiss
3 hours ago





Technically if you were in New York you might be in a foreign embassy and not in "America"

– Mark Schultheiss
3 hours ago













@MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

– user34150
2 hours ago






@MarkSchultheiss To take your technicality futher, are you still in new york if you are in an embassy? Is yes, then you are also in america (as you are saying the politics are irrelevant). If no, then you are also NOT in america

– user34150
2 hours ago











8 Answers
8






active

oldest

votes


















15














Consider the sentence:




If I am in America then I am in New York.




One could make the antecedent, "I am in America", true by being in Chicago. But then the consequent, "I am in New York", would be false. So this conditional would be false unless we are given other information, such as travel plans, in addition to knowing that I am in America.



However, consider this sentence:




If I am in New York then I am in America.




Now whenever the antecedent, "I am in New York", is true, then so is the consequent, "I am in America". I don't need any additional information for that conditional to be true.



It would be similar for the following sentence:




I am in New York only if I am in America.




Here we are given that "I am in New York" and conclude that "I am in America". Except for English style this means the same as the previous sentence.



The authors of forall x provide a similar example using Paris and France in section "5.4 Condititional". They also provide this symbolization rule:




A sentence can be symbolized as A → B if it can be
paraphrased in English as ‘If A, then B’ or ‘A only if B’.





P. D. Magnus, Tim Button with additions by J. Robert Loftis remixed and revised by Aaron Thomas-Bolduc, Richard Zach, forallx Calgary Remix: An Introduction to Formal Logic, Fall 2018 bis. http://forallx.openlogicproject.org/






share|improve this answer























  • This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

    – Brilliand
    1 hour ago


















14














This is an example of the confusion inherent in switching between a natural language like English, and a formal language of logic.



The formulation




X only if Y




is rare in spoken English, but perfectly grammatical, and it typically has a logical meaning equivalent to




If X then Y




Both statements are saying you can't ever have X without Y. However, at first glance it looks closer to




If Y then X




which is entirely different. This represents how English has many different ways of saying the same thing (with incidental connotations and subtleties of meaning that are completely stripped out when you translate to a formal language).






share|improve this answer






























    6














    "A only if B" and "if A, then B" mean the same.



    The truth-condition for "if A, then B" excludes the case when A is True and B is False.



    "A only if B" means that we cannot have A without B.



    The two are equivalent.



    See necessary and sufficient.






    share|improve this answer
































      3














      I see two interpretations of the sentence here. They mean logically different things. In both cases "only" is interpreted as "must be true and cannot be false".




      I am in New York (only if I am in America).



      If I am in New York, it can only be true that I am in America.



      New York => America.




      This is the interpretation everyone else is responding to. It is logically true.




      I can be in (New York only) if I am in America.



      If I am in America, then it can only be true that I am in New York.



      America => New York.




      This one is not logically true, you could be in Iowa.






      share|improve this answer








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      • My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

        – Brilliand
        1 hour ago


















      3














      The contrapositive of both statements is :



      If I am not in America, then I cannot be in New York.


      A conditional statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. It means both your statements are equivalent since they have the same contrapositive.






      share|improve this answer


















      • 1





        I think this answer is correct.

        – Mark Andrews
        52 mins ago


















      2














      These claims have distinctly different connotations. From a pure formal-logic perspective, the "X only if Y" is equivalent to "Y or not X" which is the same as "X implies Y", which is the same as "if X then Y". However, natural language carries more information than its simple-minded reduction to predicate logic.



      The second formulation "If I am in NY then I am in USA" sounds like a simple statement of a containment relationship: it implies that "I" am an unbound variable and informs the listener that NY is within the USA.



      The first formulation connotes something about the speaker's mental state: he entertains the possibility (perhaps even likelihood) of being outside the USA in a place confusingly-similar to NY.






      share|improve this answer








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        2














        LOL - The two statements are not equivalent.



        You could be in New York - Lazio - Italy






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        • 1





          That means that "If I'm in New York then I'm in America" is false, but it doesn't mean that it's not equivalent to "I'm in New York only if I'm in America".

          – Eliran
          2 hours ago











        • While this link may answer the question, it is better to include the essential parts of the answer here and provide the link for reference. Link-only answers can become invalid if the linked page changes. - From Review

          – Mark Andrews
          28 mins ago


















        1














        One way of analyzing the statements is to look at a truth table. Let's make the following definitions:



        A := "I am in New York"

        B := "I am in America".



        X := "I am in New York only if I am in America"

        Y := "If I am in New York, then I am in America"



        If both A and B are true, then X is true. We can write that as X(TT) = T. We have X(TF) = F (If you are in New York but not in America, then the statement "I am in New York only if I am in America" must be false). X(FT) = T and X(FF) = T; X makes a statement about what has to be true when you're in New York, so if you're not in New York, then X isn't telling you anything so it can't be proven wrong.



        If you analyze Y, you'll find that all the values are the same:

        X(TT) = Y(TT) = T

        X(TF) = Y(TF) = F

        X(FT) = Y(FT) = T

        X(FF) = Y(FF) = T



        Since no matter the truth values of A and B, X has the same truth value as Y, X and Y are equivalent; if you have two statements such that it's not possible for one to be true and the other false, then the two statements are saying essentially the same thing.



        One thing to keep in mind is that in Formal Logic, statements of the form "If S1 then S2" are considered true any time S1 is false; that is, "If S1 then S2" is interpreted as meaning "Whenever S1 is true, S2 is also true". Because of this, "If S1 then S2" is equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true" (if S1 is false, then the statement is automatically true, because it doesn't say anything about the situation of S1 being true). And "S1 only if S2 " is also equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true".






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          8 Answers
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          8 Answers
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          active

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          active

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          15














          Consider the sentence:




          If I am in America then I am in New York.




          One could make the antecedent, "I am in America", true by being in Chicago. But then the consequent, "I am in New York", would be false. So this conditional would be false unless we are given other information, such as travel plans, in addition to knowing that I am in America.



          However, consider this sentence:




          If I am in New York then I am in America.




          Now whenever the antecedent, "I am in New York", is true, then so is the consequent, "I am in America". I don't need any additional information for that conditional to be true.



          It would be similar for the following sentence:




          I am in New York only if I am in America.




          Here we are given that "I am in New York" and conclude that "I am in America". Except for English style this means the same as the previous sentence.



          The authors of forall x provide a similar example using Paris and France in section "5.4 Condititional". They also provide this symbolization rule:




          A sentence can be symbolized as A → B if it can be
          paraphrased in English as ‘If A, then B’ or ‘A only if B’.





          P. D. Magnus, Tim Button with additions by J. Robert Loftis remixed and revised by Aaron Thomas-Bolduc, Richard Zach, forallx Calgary Remix: An Introduction to Formal Logic, Fall 2018 bis. http://forallx.openlogicproject.org/






          share|improve this answer























          • This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

            – Brilliand
            1 hour ago















          15














          Consider the sentence:




          If I am in America then I am in New York.




          One could make the antecedent, "I am in America", true by being in Chicago. But then the consequent, "I am in New York", would be false. So this conditional would be false unless we are given other information, such as travel plans, in addition to knowing that I am in America.



          However, consider this sentence:




          If I am in New York then I am in America.




          Now whenever the antecedent, "I am in New York", is true, then so is the consequent, "I am in America". I don't need any additional information for that conditional to be true.



          It would be similar for the following sentence:




          I am in New York only if I am in America.




          Here we are given that "I am in New York" and conclude that "I am in America". Except for English style this means the same as the previous sentence.



          The authors of forall x provide a similar example using Paris and France in section "5.4 Condititional". They also provide this symbolization rule:




          A sentence can be symbolized as A → B if it can be
          paraphrased in English as ‘If A, then B’ or ‘A only if B’.





          P. D. Magnus, Tim Button with additions by J. Robert Loftis remixed and revised by Aaron Thomas-Bolduc, Richard Zach, forallx Calgary Remix: An Introduction to Formal Logic, Fall 2018 bis. http://forallx.openlogicproject.org/






          share|improve this answer























          • This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

            – Brilliand
            1 hour ago













          15












          15








          15







          Consider the sentence:




          If I am in America then I am in New York.




          One could make the antecedent, "I am in America", true by being in Chicago. But then the consequent, "I am in New York", would be false. So this conditional would be false unless we are given other information, such as travel plans, in addition to knowing that I am in America.



          However, consider this sentence:




          If I am in New York then I am in America.




          Now whenever the antecedent, "I am in New York", is true, then so is the consequent, "I am in America". I don't need any additional information for that conditional to be true.



          It would be similar for the following sentence:




          I am in New York only if I am in America.




          Here we are given that "I am in New York" and conclude that "I am in America". Except for English style this means the same as the previous sentence.



          The authors of forall x provide a similar example using Paris and France in section "5.4 Condititional". They also provide this symbolization rule:




          A sentence can be symbolized as A → B if it can be
          paraphrased in English as ‘If A, then B’ or ‘A only if B’.





          P. D. Magnus, Tim Button with additions by J. Robert Loftis remixed and revised by Aaron Thomas-Bolduc, Richard Zach, forallx Calgary Remix: An Introduction to Formal Logic, Fall 2018 bis. http://forallx.openlogicproject.org/






          share|improve this answer













          Consider the sentence:




          If I am in America then I am in New York.




          One could make the antecedent, "I am in America", true by being in Chicago. But then the consequent, "I am in New York", would be false. So this conditional would be false unless we are given other information, such as travel plans, in addition to knowing that I am in America.



          However, consider this sentence:




          If I am in New York then I am in America.




          Now whenever the antecedent, "I am in New York", is true, then so is the consequent, "I am in America". I don't need any additional information for that conditional to be true.



          It would be similar for the following sentence:




          I am in New York only if I am in America.




          Here we are given that "I am in New York" and conclude that "I am in America". Except for English style this means the same as the previous sentence.



          The authors of forall x provide a similar example using Paris and France in section "5.4 Condititional". They also provide this symbolization rule:




          A sentence can be symbolized as A → B if it can be
          paraphrased in English as ‘If A, then B’ or ‘A only if B’.





          P. D. Magnus, Tim Button with additions by J. Robert Loftis remixed and revised by Aaron Thomas-Bolduc, Richard Zach, forallx Calgary Remix: An Introduction to Formal Logic, Fall 2018 bis. http://forallx.openlogicproject.org/







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 9 hours ago









          Frank HubenyFrank Hubeny

          9,89251555




          9,89251555












          • This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

            – Brilliand
            1 hour ago

















          • This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

            – Brilliand
            1 hour ago
















          This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

          – Brilliand
          1 hour ago





          This way of converting the sentence to logic does not do justice to the sentence's implications in English. The "only" version of the sentence could easily be read as "if and only if" (that is, a two-way implication).

          – Brilliand
          1 hour ago











          14














          This is an example of the confusion inherent in switching between a natural language like English, and a formal language of logic.



          The formulation




          X only if Y




          is rare in spoken English, but perfectly grammatical, and it typically has a logical meaning equivalent to




          If X then Y




          Both statements are saying you can't ever have X without Y. However, at first glance it looks closer to




          If Y then X




          which is entirely different. This represents how English has many different ways of saying the same thing (with incidental connotations and subtleties of meaning that are completely stripped out when you translate to a formal language).






          share|improve this answer



























            14














            This is an example of the confusion inherent in switching between a natural language like English, and a formal language of logic.



            The formulation




            X only if Y




            is rare in spoken English, but perfectly grammatical, and it typically has a logical meaning equivalent to




            If X then Y




            Both statements are saying you can't ever have X without Y. However, at first glance it looks closer to




            If Y then X




            which is entirely different. This represents how English has many different ways of saying the same thing (with incidental connotations and subtleties of meaning that are completely stripped out when you translate to a formal language).






            share|improve this answer

























              14












              14








              14







              This is an example of the confusion inherent in switching between a natural language like English, and a formal language of logic.



              The formulation




              X only if Y




              is rare in spoken English, but perfectly grammatical, and it typically has a logical meaning equivalent to




              If X then Y




              Both statements are saying you can't ever have X without Y. However, at first glance it looks closer to




              If Y then X




              which is entirely different. This represents how English has many different ways of saying the same thing (with incidental connotations and subtleties of meaning that are completely stripped out when you translate to a formal language).






              share|improve this answer













              This is an example of the confusion inherent in switching between a natural language like English, and a formal language of logic.



              The formulation




              X only if Y




              is rare in spoken English, but perfectly grammatical, and it typically has a logical meaning equivalent to




              If X then Y




              Both statements are saying you can't ever have X without Y. However, at first glance it looks closer to




              If Y then X




              which is entirely different. This represents how English has many different ways of saying the same thing (with incidental connotations and subtleties of meaning that are completely stripped out when you translate to a formal language).







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 8 hours ago









              Chris SunamiChris Sunami

              21.2k12964




              21.2k12964





















                  6














                  "A only if B" and "if A, then B" mean the same.



                  The truth-condition for "if A, then B" excludes the case when A is True and B is False.



                  "A only if B" means that we cannot have A without B.



                  The two are equivalent.



                  See necessary and sufficient.






                  share|improve this answer





























                    6














                    "A only if B" and "if A, then B" mean the same.



                    The truth-condition for "if A, then B" excludes the case when A is True and B is False.



                    "A only if B" means that we cannot have A without B.



                    The two are equivalent.



                    See necessary and sufficient.






                    share|improve this answer



























                      6












                      6








                      6







                      "A only if B" and "if A, then B" mean the same.



                      The truth-condition for "if A, then B" excludes the case when A is True and B is False.



                      "A only if B" means that we cannot have A without B.



                      The two are equivalent.



                      See necessary and sufficient.






                      share|improve this answer















                      "A only if B" and "if A, then B" mean the same.



                      The truth-condition for "if A, then B" excludes the case when A is True and B is False.



                      "A only if B" means that we cannot have A without B.



                      The two are equivalent.



                      See necessary and sufficient.







                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited 8 hours ago

























                      answered 10 hours ago









                      Mauro ALLEGRANZAMauro ALLEGRANZA

                      29.5k22065




                      29.5k22065





















                          3














                          I see two interpretations of the sentence here. They mean logically different things. In both cases "only" is interpreted as "must be true and cannot be false".




                          I am in New York (only if I am in America).



                          If I am in New York, it can only be true that I am in America.



                          New York => America.




                          This is the interpretation everyone else is responding to. It is logically true.




                          I can be in (New York only) if I am in America.



                          If I am in America, then it can only be true that I am in New York.



                          America => New York.




                          This one is not logically true, you could be in Iowa.






                          share|improve this answer








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                          • My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                            – Brilliand
                            1 hour ago















                          3














                          I see two interpretations of the sentence here. They mean logically different things. In both cases "only" is interpreted as "must be true and cannot be false".




                          I am in New York (only if I am in America).



                          If I am in New York, it can only be true that I am in America.



                          New York => America.




                          This is the interpretation everyone else is responding to. It is logically true.




                          I can be in (New York only) if I am in America.



                          If I am in America, then it can only be true that I am in New York.



                          America => New York.




                          This one is not logically true, you could be in Iowa.






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




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                          • My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                            – Brilliand
                            1 hour ago













                          3












                          3








                          3







                          I see two interpretations of the sentence here. They mean logically different things. In both cases "only" is interpreted as "must be true and cannot be false".




                          I am in New York (only if I am in America).



                          If I am in New York, it can only be true that I am in America.



                          New York => America.




                          This is the interpretation everyone else is responding to. It is logically true.




                          I can be in (New York only) if I am in America.



                          If I am in America, then it can only be true that I am in New York.



                          America => New York.




                          This one is not logically true, you could be in Iowa.






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




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                          I see two interpretations of the sentence here. They mean logically different things. In both cases "only" is interpreted as "must be true and cannot be false".




                          I am in New York (only if I am in America).



                          If I am in New York, it can only be true that I am in America.



                          New York => America.




                          This is the interpretation everyone else is responding to. It is logically true.




                          I can be in (New York only) if I am in America.



                          If I am in America, then it can only be true that I am in New York.



                          America => New York.




                          This one is not logically true, you could be in Iowa.







                          share|improve this answer








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                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer






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                          answered 6 hours ago









                          usulusul

                          1312




                          1312




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                          New contributor





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                          • My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                            – Brilliand
                            1 hour ago

















                          • My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                            – Brilliand
                            1 hour ago
















                          My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                          – Brilliand
                          1 hour ago





                          My reading of the OP's first sentence could be paraphrased as "I am in New York, unless I am not in America". It's logically equivalent to your second version, I think, although reads like a statement about a particular person rather than a general statement about everyone.

                          – Brilliand
                          1 hour ago











                          3














                          The contrapositive of both statements is :



                          If I am not in America, then I cannot be in New York.


                          A conditional statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. It means both your statements are equivalent since they have the same contrapositive.






                          share|improve this answer


















                          • 1





                            I think this answer is correct.

                            – Mark Andrews
                            52 mins ago















                          3














                          The contrapositive of both statements is :



                          If I am not in America, then I cannot be in New York.


                          A conditional statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. It means both your statements are equivalent since they have the same contrapositive.






                          share|improve this answer


















                          • 1





                            I think this answer is correct.

                            – Mark Andrews
                            52 mins ago













                          3












                          3








                          3







                          The contrapositive of both statements is :



                          If I am not in America, then I cannot be in New York.


                          A conditional statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. It means both your statements are equivalent since they have the same contrapositive.






                          share|improve this answer













                          The contrapositive of both statements is :



                          If I am not in America, then I cannot be in New York.


                          A conditional statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. It means both your statements are equivalent since they have the same contrapositive.







                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered 2 hours ago









                          Eric DuminilEric Duminil

                          92649




                          92649







                          • 1





                            I think this answer is correct.

                            – Mark Andrews
                            52 mins ago












                          • 1





                            I think this answer is correct.

                            – Mark Andrews
                            52 mins ago







                          1




                          1





                          I think this answer is correct.

                          – Mark Andrews
                          52 mins ago





                          I think this answer is correct.

                          – Mark Andrews
                          52 mins ago











                          2














                          These claims have distinctly different connotations. From a pure formal-logic perspective, the "X only if Y" is equivalent to "Y or not X" which is the same as "X implies Y", which is the same as "if X then Y". However, natural language carries more information than its simple-minded reduction to predicate logic.



                          The second formulation "If I am in NY then I am in USA" sounds like a simple statement of a containment relationship: it implies that "I" am an unbound variable and informs the listener that NY is within the USA.



                          The first formulation connotes something about the speaker's mental state: he entertains the possibility (perhaps even likelihood) of being outside the USA in a place confusingly-similar to NY.






                          share|improve this answer








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                            2














                            These claims have distinctly different connotations. From a pure formal-logic perspective, the "X only if Y" is equivalent to "Y or not X" which is the same as "X implies Y", which is the same as "if X then Y". However, natural language carries more information than its simple-minded reduction to predicate logic.



                            The second formulation "If I am in NY then I am in USA" sounds like a simple statement of a containment relationship: it implies that "I" am an unbound variable and informs the listener that NY is within the USA.



                            The first formulation connotes something about the speaker's mental state: he entertains the possibility (perhaps even likelihood) of being outside the USA in a place confusingly-similar to NY.






                            share|improve this answer








                            New contributor




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                              2












                              2








                              2







                              These claims have distinctly different connotations. From a pure formal-logic perspective, the "X only if Y" is equivalent to "Y or not X" which is the same as "X implies Y", which is the same as "if X then Y". However, natural language carries more information than its simple-minded reduction to predicate logic.



                              The second formulation "If I am in NY then I am in USA" sounds like a simple statement of a containment relationship: it implies that "I" am an unbound variable and informs the listener that NY is within the USA.



                              The first formulation connotes something about the speaker's mental state: he entertains the possibility (perhaps even likelihood) of being outside the USA in a place confusingly-similar to NY.






                              share|improve this answer








                              New contributor




                              Ian is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.










                              These claims have distinctly different connotations. From a pure formal-logic perspective, the "X only if Y" is equivalent to "Y or not X" which is the same as "X implies Y", which is the same as "if X then Y". However, natural language carries more information than its simple-minded reduction to predicate logic.



                              The second formulation "If I am in NY then I am in USA" sounds like a simple statement of a containment relationship: it implies that "I" am an unbound variable and informs the listener that NY is within the USA.



                              The first formulation connotes something about the speaker's mental state: he entertains the possibility (perhaps even likelihood) of being outside the USA in a place confusingly-similar to NY.







                              share|improve this answer








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                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer






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                              answered 2 hours ago









                              IanIan

                              1212




                              1212




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                                  2














                                  LOL - The two statements are not equivalent.



                                  You could be in New York - Lazio - Italy






                                  share|improve this answer








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                                  • 1





                                    That means that "If I'm in New York then I'm in America" is false, but it doesn't mean that it's not equivalent to "I'm in New York only if I'm in America".

                                    – Eliran
                                    2 hours ago











                                  • While this link may answer the question, it is better to include the essential parts of the answer here and provide the link for reference. Link-only answers can become invalid if the linked page changes. - From Review

                                    – Mark Andrews
                                    28 mins ago















                                  2














                                  LOL - The two statements are not equivalent.



                                  You could be in New York - Lazio - Italy






                                  share|improve this answer








                                  New contributor




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                                  • 1





                                    That means that "If I'm in New York then I'm in America" is false, but it doesn't mean that it's not equivalent to "I'm in New York only if I'm in America".

                                    – Eliran
                                    2 hours ago











                                  • While this link may answer the question, it is better to include the essential parts of the answer here and provide the link for reference. Link-only answers can become invalid if the linked page changes. - From Review

                                    – Mark Andrews
                                    28 mins ago













                                  2












                                  2








                                  2







                                  LOL - The two statements are not equivalent.



                                  You could be in New York - Lazio - Italy






                                  share|improve this answer








                                  New contributor




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                                  LOL - The two statements are not equivalent.



                                  You could be in New York - Lazio - Italy







                                  share|improve this answer








                                  New contributor




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                                  share|improve this answer



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                                  answered 2 hours ago









                                  MaxWMaxW

                                  291




                                  291




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                                  • 1





                                    That means that "If I'm in New York then I'm in America" is false, but it doesn't mean that it's not equivalent to "I'm in New York only if I'm in America".

                                    – Eliran
                                    2 hours ago











                                  • While this link may answer the question, it is better to include the essential parts of the answer here and provide the link for reference. Link-only answers can become invalid if the linked page changes. - From Review

                                    – Mark Andrews
                                    28 mins ago












                                  • 1





                                    That means that "If I'm in New York then I'm in America" is false, but it doesn't mean that it's not equivalent to "I'm in New York only if I'm in America".

                                    – Eliran
                                    2 hours ago











                                  • While this link may answer the question, it is better to include the essential parts of the answer here and provide the link for reference. Link-only answers can become invalid if the linked page changes. - From Review

                                    – Mark Andrews
                                    28 mins ago







                                  1




                                  1





                                  That means that "If I'm in New York then I'm in America" is false, but it doesn't mean that it's not equivalent to "I'm in New York only if I'm in America".

                                  – Eliran
                                  2 hours ago





                                  That means that "If I'm in New York then I'm in America" is false, but it doesn't mean that it's not equivalent to "I'm in New York only if I'm in America".

                                  – Eliran
                                  2 hours ago













                                  While this link may answer the question, it is better to include the essential parts of the answer here and provide the link for reference. Link-only answers can become invalid if the linked page changes. - From Review

                                  – Mark Andrews
                                  28 mins ago





                                  While this link may answer the question, it is better to include the essential parts of the answer here and provide the link for reference. Link-only answers can become invalid if the linked page changes. - From Review

                                  – Mark Andrews
                                  28 mins ago











                                  1














                                  One way of analyzing the statements is to look at a truth table. Let's make the following definitions:



                                  A := "I am in New York"

                                  B := "I am in America".



                                  X := "I am in New York only if I am in America"

                                  Y := "If I am in New York, then I am in America"



                                  If both A and B are true, then X is true. We can write that as X(TT) = T. We have X(TF) = F (If you are in New York but not in America, then the statement "I am in New York only if I am in America" must be false). X(FT) = T and X(FF) = T; X makes a statement about what has to be true when you're in New York, so if you're not in New York, then X isn't telling you anything so it can't be proven wrong.



                                  If you analyze Y, you'll find that all the values are the same:

                                  X(TT) = Y(TT) = T

                                  X(TF) = Y(TF) = F

                                  X(FT) = Y(FT) = T

                                  X(FF) = Y(FF) = T



                                  Since no matter the truth values of A and B, X has the same truth value as Y, X and Y are equivalent; if you have two statements such that it's not possible for one to be true and the other false, then the two statements are saying essentially the same thing.



                                  One thing to keep in mind is that in Formal Logic, statements of the form "If S1 then S2" are considered true any time S1 is false; that is, "If S1 then S2" is interpreted as meaning "Whenever S1 is true, S2 is also true". Because of this, "If S1 then S2" is equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true" (if S1 is false, then the statement is automatically true, because it doesn't say anything about the situation of S1 being true). And "S1 only if S2 " is also equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true".






                                  share|improve this answer



























                                    1














                                    One way of analyzing the statements is to look at a truth table. Let's make the following definitions:



                                    A := "I am in New York"

                                    B := "I am in America".



                                    X := "I am in New York only if I am in America"

                                    Y := "If I am in New York, then I am in America"



                                    If both A and B are true, then X is true. We can write that as X(TT) = T. We have X(TF) = F (If you are in New York but not in America, then the statement "I am in New York only if I am in America" must be false). X(FT) = T and X(FF) = T; X makes a statement about what has to be true when you're in New York, so if you're not in New York, then X isn't telling you anything so it can't be proven wrong.



                                    If you analyze Y, you'll find that all the values are the same:

                                    X(TT) = Y(TT) = T

                                    X(TF) = Y(TF) = F

                                    X(FT) = Y(FT) = T

                                    X(FF) = Y(FF) = T



                                    Since no matter the truth values of A and B, X has the same truth value as Y, X and Y are equivalent; if you have two statements such that it's not possible for one to be true and the other false, then the two statements are saying essentially the same thing.



                                    One thing to keep in mind is that in Formal Logic, statements of the form "If S1 then S2" are considered true any time S1 is false; that is, "If S1 then S2" is interpreted as meaning "Whenever S1 is true, S2 is also true". Because of this, "If S1 then S2" is equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true" (if S1 is false, then the statement is automatically true, because it doesn't say anything about the situation of S1 being true). And "S1 only if S2 " is also equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true".






                                    share|improve this answer

























                                      1












                                      1








                                      1







                                      One way of analyzing the statements is to look at a truth table. Let's make the following definitions:



                                      A := "I am in New York"

                                      B := "I am in America".



                                      X := "I am in New York only if I am in America"

                                      Y := "If I am in New York, then I am in America"



                                      If both A and B are true, then X is true. We can write that as X(TT) = T. We have X(TF) = F (If you are in New York but not in America, then the statement "I am in New York only if I am in America" must be false). X(FT) = T and X(FF) = T; X makes a statement about what has to be true when you're in New York, so if you're not in New York, then X isn't telling you anything so it can't be proven wrong.



                                      If you analyze Y, you'll find that all the values are the same:

                                      X(TT) = Y(TT) = T

                                      X(TF) = Y(TF) = F

                                      X(FT) = Y(FT) = T

                                      X(FF) = Y(FF) = T



                                      Since no matter the truth values of A and B, X has the same truth value as Y, X and Y are equivalent; if you have two statements such that it's not possible for one to be true and the other false, then the two statements are saying essentially the same thing.



                                      One thing to keep in mind is that in Formal Logic, statements of the form "If S1 then S2" are considered true any time S1 is false; that is, "If S1 then S2" is interpreted as meaning "Whenever S1 is true, S2 is also true". Because of this, "If S1 then S2" is equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true" (if S1 is false, then the statement is automatically true, because it doesn't say anything about the situation of S1 being true). And "S1 only if S2 " is also equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true".






                                      share|improve this answer













                                      One way of analyzing the statements is to look at a truth table. Let's make the following definitions:



                                      A := "I am in New York"

                                      B := "I am in America".



                                      X := "I am in New York only if I am in America"

                                      Y := "If I am in New York, then I am in America"



                                      If both A and B are true, then X is true. We can write that as X(TT) = T. We have X(TF) = F (If you are in New York but not in America, then the statement "I am in New York only if I am in America" must be false). X(FT) = T and X(FF) = T; X makes a statement about what has to be true when you're in New York, so if you're not in New York, then X isn't telling you anything so it can't be proven wrong.



                                      If you analyze Y, you'll find that all the values are the same:

                                      X(TT) = Y(TT) = T

                                      X(TF) = Y(TF) = F

                                      X(FT) = Y(FT) = T

                                      X(FF) = Y(FF) = T



                                      Since no matter the truth values of A and B, X has the same truth value as Y, X and Y are equivalent; if you have two statements such that it's not possible for one to be true and the other false, then the two statements are saying essentially the same thing.



                                      One thing to keep in mind is that in Formal Logic, statements of the form "If S1 then S2" are considered true any time S1 is false; that is, "If S1 then S2" is interpreted as meaning "Whenever S1 is true, S2 is also true". Because of this, "If S1 then S2" is equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true" (if S1 is false, then the statement is automatically true, because it doesn't say anything about the situation of S1 being true). And "S1 only if S2 " is also equivalent to "Either S1 is false, or S2 is true".







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