Why is my conclusion inconsistent with the van't Hoff equation? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)What kind of equilibrium constant we use for Gibbs free energy and Van't Hoff equation?What is the name for the equation ΔG = ΔG° + RT ln Q?Finding the thermodynamics of protein unfolding from temperature and absorbance using fluorescence spectroscopy?What's the source of “2.303” in Van't Hoff equation?Derivation of van 't Hoff equation for temperature dependence of equilibrium constantHow to derive Van't Hoff equation for Henry's constantVan't Hoff Equation with changing EnthalpyHow did Williard Gibbs come up with the Gibbs equation?Density calculation with cubic equation of stateWhy might copper have a lower heat capacity than lithium according to the Shomate Equation?
How discoverable are IPv6 addresses and AAAA names by potential attackers?
Check which numbers satisfy the condition [A*B*C = A! + B! + C!]
Identifying polygons that intersect with another layer using QGIS?
Why do we bend a book to keep it straight?
Using audio cues to encourage good posture
What is use of Files statically option into Package Designer
Echoing a tail command produces unexpected output?
Why did the Falcon Heavy center core fall off the ASDS OCISLY barge?
Why aren't air breathing engines used as small first stages
Why are there no cargo aircraft with "flying wing" design?
How to react to hostile behavior from a senior developer?
Can I cast Passwall to drop an enemy into a 20-foot pit?
51k Euros annually for a family of 4 in Berlin: Is it enough?
How to find out what spells would be useless to a blind NPC spellcaster?
Bete Noir -- no dairy
What exactly is a "Meth" in Altered Carbon?
Withdrew £2800, but only £2000 shows as withdrawn on online banking; what are my obligations?
How do I stop a creek from eroding my steep embankment?
Can an alien society believe that their star system is the universe?
What does the "x" in "x86" represent?
The logistics of corpse disposal
Why didn't this character "real die" when they blew their stack out in Altered Carbon?
Why am I getting the error "non-boolean type specified in a context where a condition is expected" for this request?
Should I discuss the type of campaign with my players?
Why is my conclusion inconsistent with the van't Hoff equation?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)What kind of equilibrium constant we use for Gibbs free energy and Van't Hoff equation?What is the name for the equation ΔG = ΔG° + RT ln Q?Finding the thermodynamics of protein unfolding from temperature and absorbance using fluorescence spectroscopy?What's the source of “2.303” in Van't Hoff equation?Derivation of van 't Hoff equation for temperature dependence of equilibrium constantHow to derive Van't Hoff equation for Henry's constantVan't Hoff Equation with changing EnthalpyHow did Williard Gibbs come up with the Gibbs equation?Density calculation with cubic equation of stateWhy might copper have a lower heat capacity than lithium according to the Shomate Equation?
$begingroup$
Let's say I hypothesize that a graph of $ln K$ vs. $1/T$ has a slope of $-∆G^circ/R$ and a $y$-intercept of $0$. I prove it simply:
$$∆G^circ = -RTln K quadtoquad ln K = -frac∆G^circRT$$
This matches the linear form $y = mx + b$. Thus, plotting $ln K$ vs. $1/T$ would have a slope $m = -∆G^circ/R$ and a $y$-intercept $b = 0$.
However, I understand that a van't Hoff plot defines a graph of $ln K$ vs. $1/T$ to have a slope of $-ΔH^circ/R$ and a $y$-intercept of $∆S^circ/R$. It is clear from the relation $∆G^circ = ∆H^circ - TΔS^circ$ that my final equation is thermodynamically equivalent to the van't Hoff equation. I do not disagree that
$$ln K = frac∆H^circRT - frac∆S^circR,$$
but if I were to experimentally measure temperature and calculate the equilibrium constant temperature, why should I expect the y-intercept to be $∆S^circ/R$ as defined by van't Hoff rather than $0$ as I defined above? Why should I expect the slope to be $-ΔH^circ/R$ instead of $-ΔG^circ/R$? What makes the van't Hoff equation match experimentally determined values over the equation $ln K = -∆G^circ/(RT)$?
thermodynamics free-energy
New contributor
Mateen Kasim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's say I hypothesize that a graph of $ln K$ vs. $1/T$ has a slope of $-∆G^circ/R$ and a $y$-intercept of $0$. I prove it simply:
$$∆G^circ = -RTln K quadtoquad ln K = -frac∆G^circRT$$
This matches the linear form $y = mx + b$. Thus, plotting $ln K$ vs. $1/T$ would have a slope $m = -∆G^circ/R$ and a $y$-intercept $b = 0$.
However, I understand that a van't Hoff plot defines a graph of $ln K$ vs. $1/T$ to have a slope of $-ΔH^circ/R$ and a $y$-intercept of $∆S^circ/R$. It is clear from the relation $∆G^circ = ∆H^circ - TΔS^circ$ that my final equation is thermodynamically equivalent to the van't Hoff equation. I do not disagree that
$$ln K = frac∆H^circRT - frac∆S^circR,$$
but if I were to experimentally measure temperature and calculate the equilibrium constant temperature, why should I expect the y-intercept to be $∆S^circ/R$ as defined by van't Hoff rather than $0$ as I defined above? Why should I expect the slope to be $-ΔH^circ/R$ instead of $-ΔG^circ/R$? What makes the van't Hoff equation match experimentally determined values over the equation $ln K = -∆G^circ/(RT)$?
thermodynamics free-energy
New contributor
Mateen Kasim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's say I hypothesize that a graph of $ln K$ vs. $1/T$ has a slope of $-∆G^circ/R$ and a $y$-intercept of $0$. I prove it simply:
$$∆G^circ = -RTln K quadtoquad ln K = -frac∆G^circRT$$
This matches the linear form $y = mx + b$. Thus, plotting $ln K$ vs. $1/T$ would have a slope $m = -∆G^circ/R$ and a $y$-intercept $b = 0$.
However, I understand that a van't Hoff plot defines a graph of $ln K$ vs. $1/T$ to have a slope of $-ΔH^circ/R$ and a $y$-intercept of $∆S^circ/R$. It is clear from the relation $∆G^circ = ∆H^circ - TΔS^circ$ that my final equation is thermodynamically equivalent to the van't Hoff equation. I do not disagree that
$$ln K = frac∆H^circRT - frac∆S^circR,$$
but if I were to experimentally measure temperature and calculate the equilibrium constant temperature, why should I expect the y-intercept to be $∆S^circ/R$ as defined by van't Hoff rather than $0$ as I defined above? Why should I expect the slope to be $-ΔH^circ/R$ instead of $-ΔG^circ/R$? What makes the van't Hoff equation match experimentally determined values over the equation $ln K = -∆G^circ/(RT)$?
thermodynamics free-energy
New contributor
Mateen Kasim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
Let's say I hypothesize that a graph of $ln K$ vs. $1/T$ has a slope of $-∆G^circ/R$ and a $y$-intercept of $0$. I prove it simply:
$$∆G^circ = -RTln K quadtoquad ln K = -frac∆G^circRT$$
This matches the linear form $y = mx + b$. Thus, plotting $ln K$ vs. $1/T$ would have a slope $m = -∆G^circ/R$ and a $y$-intercept $b = 0$.
However, I understand that a van't Hoff plot defines a graph of $ln K$ vs. $1/T$ to have a slope of $-ΔH^circ/R$ and a $y$-intercept of $∆S^circ/R$. It is clear from the relation $∆G^circ = ∆H^circ - TΔS^circ$ that my final equation is thermodynamically equivalent to the van't Hoff equation. I do not disagree that
$$ln K = frac∆H^circRT - frac∆S^circR,$$
but if I were to experimentally measure temperature and calculate the equilibrium constant temperature, why should I expect the y-intercept to be $∆S^circ/R$ as defined by van't Hoff rather than $0$ as I defined above? Why should I expect the slope to be $-ΔH^circ/R$ instead of $-ΔG^circ/R$? What makes the van't Hoff equation match experimentally determined values over the equation $ln K = -∆G^circ/(RT)$?
thermodynamics free-energy
thermodynamics free-energy
New contributor
Mateen Kasim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Mateen Kasim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 1 hour ago
andselisk
19.6k665127
19.6k665127
New contributor
Mateen Kasim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 3 hours ago
Mateen KasimMateen Kasim
212
212
New contributor
Mateen Kasim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Mateen Kasim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Mateen Kasim is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
In the linear form $y = mx + b$, both $m$ and $b$ are constants, i.e. they don't depend on $x$. On the other hand, $Delta G^circ$ definitely depends on the temperature (and consequently on its inverse $1/T$). So if you plot a function $$f(x) = m x$$ where $m$ is not a constant but a function dependent on $x$, you might get something unexpected. In your case, $x$ is $1/T$ and $$m = -fracDelta HR + fracT Delta SR$$
The $y$-intercept corresponds to an infinitely high temperature where $-fracDelta HR times frac1T$ tends to zero and $fracT Delta SR times frac1T$ cancels to be just $fracDelta SR$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "431"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Mateen Kasim is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fchemistry.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f112871%2fwhy-is-my-conclusion-inconsistent-with-the-vant-hoff-equation%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
In the linear form $y = mx + b$, both $m$ and $b$ are constants, i.e. they don't depend on $x$. On the other hand, $Delta G^circ$ definitely depends on the temperature (and consequently on its inverse $1/T$). So if you plot a function $$f(x) = m x$$ where $m$ is not a constant but a function dependent on $x$, you might get something unexpected. In your case, $x$ is $1/T$ and $$m = -fracDelta HR + fracT Delta SR$$
The $y$-intercept corresponds to an infinitely high temperature where $-fracDelta HR times frac1T$ tends to zero and $fracT Delta SR times frac1T$ cancels to be just $fracDelta SR$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In the linear form $y = mx + b$, both $m$ and $b$ are constants, i.e. they don't depend on $x$. On the other hand, $Delta G^circ$ definitely depends on the temperature (and consequently on its inverse $1/T$). So if you plot a function $$f(x) = m x$$ where $m$ is not a constant but a function dependent on $x$, you might get something unexpected. In your case, $x$ is $1/T$ and $$m = -fracDelta HR + fracT Delta SR$$
The $y$-intercept corresponds to an infinitely high temperature where $-fracDelta HR times frac1T$ tends to zero and $fracT Delta SR times frac1T$ cancels to be just $fracDelta SR$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In the linear form $y = mx + b$, both $m$ and $b$ are constants, i.e. they don't depend on $x$. On the other hand, $Delta G^circ$ definitely depends on the temperature (and consequently on its inverse $1/T$). So if you plot a function $$f(x) = m x$$ where $m$ is not a constant but a function dependent on $x$, you might get something unexpected. In your case, $x$ is $1/T$ and $$m = -fracDelta HR + fracT Delta SR$$
The $y$-intercept corresponds to an infinitely high temperature where $-fracDelta HR times frac1T$ tends to zero and $fracT Delta SR times frac1T$ cancels to be just $fracDelta SR$.
$endgroup$
In the linear form $y = mx + b$, both $m$ and $b$ are constants, i.e. they don't depend on $x$. On the other hand, $Delta G^circ$ definitely depends on the temperature (and consequently on its inverse $1/T$). So if you plot a function $$f(x) = m x$$ where $m$ is not a constant but a function dependent on $x$, you might get something unexpected. In your case, $x$ is $1/T$ and $$m = -fracDelta HR + fracT Delta SR$$
The $y$-intercept corresponds to an infinitely high temperature where $-fracDelta HR times frac1T$ tends to zero and $fracT Delta SR times frac1T$ cancels to be just $fracDelta SR$.
edited 52 secs ago
answered 1 hour ago
Karsten TheisKarsten Theis
4,564542
4,564542
add a comment |
add a comment |
Mateen Kasim is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Mateen Kasim is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Mateen Kasim is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Mateen Kasim is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Thanks for contributing an answer to Chemistry Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fchemistry.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f112871%2fwhy-is-my-conclusion-inconsistent-with-the-vant-hoff-equation%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown