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PTIJ: Who should pay for Uber rides: the child or the parent?

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PTIJ: Who should pay for Uber rides: the child or the parent?



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3















There's a big machlokes in shas about ridesharing. Namely, who pays for it: the mother (parent) or the child?




"עובר ירך אמו" vs "עובר לאו ירך אמו"



"Uber should be charged to the parent" vs "Uber should NOT be charged to the parent"




Thoughts on how we might pasken?

Would the halacha be similar or different for Lyft?










share|improve this question

















  • 2





    My Hebrew is lacking, here. The word ירך means "charged to"??

    – DanF
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @DanF it does not- literally means "thigh" 😬#sorryaboutthat

    – alicht
    3 hours ago















3















There's a big machlokes in shas about ridesharing. Namely, who pays for it: the mother (parent) or the child?




"עובר ירך אמו" vs "עובר לאו ירך אמו"



"Uber should be charged to the parent" vs "Uber should NOT be charged to the parent"




Thoughts on how we might pasken?

Would the halacha be similar or different for Lyft?










share|improve this question

















  • 2





    My Hebrew is lacking, here. The word ירך means "charged to"??

    – DanF
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @DanF it does not- literally means "thigh" 😬#sorryaboutthat

    – alicht
    3 hours ago













3












3








3








There's a big machlokes in shas about ridesharing. Namely, who pays for it: the mother (parent) or the child?




"עובר ירך אמו" vs "עובר לאו ירך אמו"



"Uber should be charged to the parent" vs "Uber should NOT be charged to the parent"




Thoughts on how we might pasken?

Would the halacha be similar or different for Lyft?










share|improve this question














There's a big machlokes in shas about ridesharing. Namely, who pays for it: the mother (parent) or the child?




"עובר ירך אמו" vs "עובר לאו ירך אמו"



"Uber should be charged to the parent" vs "Uber should NOT be charged to the parent"




Thoughts on how we might pasken?

Would the halacha be similar or different for Lyft?







purim-torah-in-jest






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 5 hours ago









alichtalicht

2,0151429




2,0151429







  • 2





    My Hebrew is lacking, here. The word ירך means "charged to"??

    – DanF
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @DanF it does not- literally means "thigh" 😬#sorryaboutthat

    – alicht
    3 hours ago












  • 2





    My Hebrew is lacking, here. The word ירך means "charged to"??

    – DanF
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @DanF it does not- literally means "thigh" 😬#sorryaboutthat

    – alicht
    3 hours ago







2




2





My Hebrew is lacking, here. The word ירך means "charged to"??

– DanF
3 hours ago





My Hebrew is lacking, here. The word ירך means "charged to"??

– DanF
3 hours ago




1




1





@DanF it does not- literally means "thigh" 😬#sorryaboutthat

– alicht
3 hours ago





@DanF it does not- literally means "thigh" 😬#sorryaboutthat

– alicht
3 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















3














I believe that the one who pays is the one who does the action of making the arrangements, as we hold עובר לעשייתן, that the Uber goes to the one who does the work for it.






share|improve this answer























  • So...the driver?

    – DonielF
    3 hours ago











  • @rosends gevaldik- shkoyach!

    – alicht
    3 hours ago


















2














While rosends's answer covers Uber, what about Lyft? Berachos 40a says:




אמר רב חסדא קיתון לפת



Rav Chisda said, a kid on the Lyft.




What does this mean? Does this mean that the kid pays for it, or that the parent pays for the Lyft on top of the kid? On 43a, the Gemara elaborates:




הסבה לפת מהניא



The grandfather [for the] Lyft helps.




This clearly implies that the elder generation pays for it, and so the parent pays for the child.






share|improve this answer






























    2














    This question is asked as long ago as the Gemara:
    (Sanhedrin 57b):




    משום רבי ישמעאל אמרו אף על העוברין מאי טעמיה דרבי ישמעאל דכתיב (בראשית ט, ו) שופך דם האדם באדם דמו ישפך איזהו אדם שהוא באדם הוי אומר זה עובר שבמעי אמו- it was said in the name of rabbi yishmael: why even the Uber users? As it says, ‘the one who pours money of man, his own money will be poured in man’. Who is this ‘man whose will be poured in man’? That who Uber’s in his mother’s stomach”
    We see from here, that one who Uber’s in his mother’s stomach, I.e. the son, he ends up pouring his money into man (gives his money to the cabby) [דם in this instance means money, like דמים, not blood]




    The achronim talk about this as well:
    (shita mekubetzes Bava Basra 139b)




    עובר בן הוא לא עדיף- Uber, a son is not preferred
    We see then, that the shita mekubetzes argues with the Gemara! The chachmas Adam solves this contradiction:
    (chachmas adam 28)



    עובר בן ח' או בן ט'- Uber, [only] an 8 or 9 year old son
    Only from 8 or 9 years old does a son need to pay for his parents Uber.




    The Gemara is talking about a child under the age of 8, who is not expected to finance his parents Uber. The shita mekubetzes is talking about an older child, from 8/9 and up, who is expected to finance his parents Uber.
    This is how we pasken (as there are no other sources that talk about it).
    As for Lyft, it says in herchev davar al Bereshit (27):




    מצות כיבוד אב כמו שאירע ליפת. - it is a mitzva of kibbud av va’em like what happened with Lyft.




    We see from here that we learn Hilchos kibbud av va’em for Uber from Lyft! So for sure the Halachos will be the same!






    share|improve this answer






























      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      3














      I believe that the one who pays is the one who does the action of making the arrangements, as we hold עובר לעשייתן, that the Uber goes to the one who does the work for it.






      share|improve this answer























      • So...the driver?

        – DonielF
        3 hours ago











      • @rosends gevaldik- shkoyach!

        – alicht
        3 hours ago















      3














      I believe that the one who pays is the one who does the action of making the arrangements, as we hold עובר לעשייתן, that the Uber goes to the one who does the work for it.






      share|improve this answer























      • So...the driver?

        – DonielF
        3 hours ago











      • @rosends gevaldik- shkoyach!

        – alicht
        3 hours ago













      3












      3








      3







      I believe that the one who pays is the one who does the action of making the arrangements, as we hold עובר לעשייתן, that the Uber goes to the one who does the work for it.






      share|improve this answer













      I believe that the one who pays is the one who does the action of making the arrangements, as we hold עובר לעשייתן, that the Uber goes to the one who does the work for it.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered 3 hours ago









      rosendsrosends

      21k32672




      21k32672












      • So...the driver?

        – DonielF
        3 hours ago











      • @rosends gevaldik- shkoyach!

        – alicht
        3 hours ago

















      • So...the driver?

        – DonielF
        3 hours ago











      • @rosends gevaldik- shkoyach!

        – alicht
        3 hours ago
















      So...the driver?

      – DonielF
      3 hours ago





      So...the driver?

      – DonielF
      3 hours ago













      @rosends gevaldik- shkoyach!

      – alicht
      3 hours ago





      @rosends gevaldik- shkoyach!

      – alicht
      3 hours ago











      2














      While rosends's answer covers Uber, what about Lyft? Berachos 40a says:




      אמר רב חסדא קיתון לפת



      Rav Chisda said, a kid on the Lyft.




      What does this mean? Does this mean that the kid pays for it, or that the parent pays for the Lyft on top of the kid? On 43a, the Gemara elaborates:




      הסבה לפת מהניא



      The grandfather [for the] Lyft helps.




      This clearly implies that the elder generation pays for it, and so the parent pays for the child.






      share|improve this answer



























        2














        While rosends's answer covers Uber, what about Lyft? Berachos 40a says:




        אמר רב חסדא קיתון לפת



        Rav Chisda said, a kid on the Lyft.




        What does this mean? Does this mean that the kid pays for it, or that the parent pays for the Lyft on top of the kid? On 43a, the Gemara elaborates:




        הסבה לפת מהניא



        The grandfather [for the] Lyft helps.




        This clearly implies that the elder generation pays for it, and so the parent pays for the child.






        share|improve this answer

























          2












          2








          2







          While rosends's answer covers Uber, what about Lyft? Berachos 40a says:




          אמר רב חסדא קיתון לפת



          Rav Chisda said, a kid on the Lyft.




          What does this mean? Does this mean that the kid pays for it, or that the parent pays for the Lyft on top of the kid? On 43a, the Gemara elaborates:




          הסבה לפת מהניא



          The grandfather [for the] Lyft helps.




          This clearly implies that the elder generation pays for it, and so the parent pays for the child.






          share|improve this answer













          While rosends's answer covers Uber, what about Lyft? Berachos 40a says:




          אמר רב חסדא קיתון לפת



          Rav Chisda said, a kid on the Lyft.




          What does this mean? Does this mean that the kid pays for it, or that the parent pays for the Lyft on top of the kid? On 43a, the Gemara elaborates:




          הסבה לפת מהניא



          The grandfather [for the] Lyft helps.




          This clearly implies that the elder generation pays for it, and so the parent pays for the child.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 3 hours ago









          DonielFDonielF

          15.4k12482




          15.4k12482





















              2














              This question is asked as long ago as the Gemara:
              (Sanhedrin 57b):




              משום רבי ישמעאל אמרו אף על העוברין מאי טעמיה דרבי ישמעאל דכתיב (בראשית ט, ו) שופך דם האדם באדם דמו ישפך איזהו אדם שהוא באדם הוי אומר זה עובר שבמעי אמו- it was said in the name of rabbi yishmael: why even the Uber users? As it says, ‘the one who pours money of man, his own money will be poured in man’. Who is this ‘man whose will be poured in man’? That who Uber’s in his mother’s stomach”
              We see from here, that one who Uber’s in his mother’s stomach, I.e. the son, he ends up pouring his money into man (gives his money to the cabby) [דם in this instance means money, like דמים, not blood]




              The achronim talk about this as well:
              (shita mekubetzes Bava Basra 139b)




              עובר בן הוא לא עדיף- Uber, a son is not preferred
              We see then, that the shita mekubetzes argues with the Gemara! The chachmas Adam solves this contradiction:
              (chachmas adam 28)



              עובר בן ח' או בן ט'- Uber, [only] an 8 or 9 year old son
              Only from 8 or 9 years old does a son need to pay for his parents Uber.




              The Gemara is talking about a child under the age of 8, who is not expected to finance his parents Uber. The shita mekubetzes is talking about an older child, from 8/9 and up, who is expected to finance his parents Uber.
              This is how we pasken (as there are no other sources that talk about it).
              As for Lyft, it says in herchev davar al Bereshit (27):




              מצות כיבוד אב כמו שאירע ליפת. - it is a mitzva of kibbud av va’em like what happened with Lyft.




              We see from here that we learn Hilchos kibbud av va’em for Uber from Lyft! So for sure the Halachos will be the same!






              share|improve this answer



























                2














                This question is asked as long ago as the Gemara:
                (Sanhedrin 57b):




                משום רבי ישמעאל אמרו אף על העוברין מאי טעמיה דרבי ישמעאל דכתיב (בראשית ט, ו) שופך דם האדם באדם דמו ישפך איזהו אדם שהוא באדם הוי אומר זה עובר שבמעי אמו- it was said in the name of rabbi yishmael: why even the Uber users? As it says, ‘the one who pours money of man, his own money will be poured in man’. Who is this ‘man whose will be poured in man’? That who Uber’s in his mother’s stomach”
                We see from here, that one who Uber’s in his mother’s stomach, I.e. the son, he ends up pouring his money into man (gives his money to the cabby) [דם in this instance means money, like דמים, not blood]




                The achronim talk about this as well:
                (shita mekubetzes Bava Basra 139b)




                עובר בן הוא לא עדיף- Uber, a son is not preferred
                We see then, that the shita mekubetzes argues with the Gemara! The chachmas Adam solves this contradiction:
                (chachmas adam 28)



                עובר בן ח' או בן ט'- Uber, [only] an 8 or 9 year old son
                Only from 8 or 9 years old does a son need to pay for his parents Uber.




                The Gemara is talking about a child under the age of 8, who is not expected to finance his parents Uber. The shita mekubetzes is talking about an older child, from 8/9 and up, who is expected to finance his parents Uber.
                This is how we pasken (as there are no other sources that talk about it).
                As for Lyft, it says in herchev davar al Bereshit (27):




                מצות כיבוד אב כמו שאירע ליפת. - it is a mitzva of kibbud av va’em like what happened with Lyft.




                We see from here that we learn Hilchos kibbud av va’em for Uber from Lyft! So for sure the Halachos will be the same!






                share|improve this answer

























                  2












                  2








                  2







                  This question is asked as long ago as the Gemara:
                  (Sanhedrin 57b):




                  משום רבי ישמעאל אמרו אף על העוברין מאי טעמיה דרבי ישמעאל דכתיב (בראשית ט, ו) שופך דם האדם באדם דמו ישפך איזהו אדם שהוא באדם הוי אומר זה עובר שבמעי אמו- it was said in the name of rabbi yishmael: why even the Uber users? As it says, ‘the one who pours money of man, his own money will be poured in man’. Who is this ‘man whose will be poured in man’? That who Uber’s in his mother’s stomach”
                  We see from here, that one who Uber’s in his mother’s stomach, I.e. the son, he ends up pouring his money into man (gives his money to the cabby) [דם in this instance means money, like דמים, not blood]




                  The achronim talk about this as well:
                  (shita mekubetzes Bava Basra 139b)




                  עובר בן הוא לא עדיף- Uber, a son is not preferred
                  We see then, that the shita mekubetzes argues with the Gemara! The chachmas Adam solves this contradiction:
                  (chachmas adam 28)



                  עובר בן ח' או בן ט'- Uber, [only] an 8 or 9 year old son
                  Only from 8 or 9 years old does a son need to pay for his parents Uber.




                  The Gemara is talking about a child under the age of 8, who is not expected to finance his parents Uber. The shita mekubetzes is talking about an older child, from 8/9 and up, who is expected to finance his parents Uber.
                  This is how we pasken (as there are no other sources that talk about it).
                  As for Lyft, it says in herchev davar al Bereshit (27):




                  מצות כיבוד אב כמו שאירע ליפת. - it is a mitzva of kibbud av va’em like what happened with Lyft.




                  We see from here that we learn Hilchos kibbud av va’em for Uber from Lyft! So for sure the Halachos will be the same!






                  share|improve this answer













                  This question is asked as long ago as the Gemara:
                  (Sanhedrin 57b):




                  משום רבי ישמעאל אמרו אף על העוברין מאי טעמיה דרבי ישמעאל דכתיב (בראשית ט, ו) שופך דם האדם באדם דמו ישפך איזהו אדם שהוא באדם הוי אומר זה עובר שבמעי אמו- it was said in the name of rabbi yishmael: why even the Uber users? As it says, ‘the one who pours money of man, his own money will be poured in man’. Who is this ‘man whose will be poured in man’? That who Uber’s in his mother’s stomach”
                  We see from here, that one who Uber’s in his mother’s stomach, I.e. the son, he ends up pouring his money into man (gives his money to the cabby) [דם in this instance means money, like דמים, not blood]




                  The achronim talk about this as well:
                  (shita mekubetzes Bava Basra 139b)




                  עובר בן הוא לא עדיף- Uber, a son is not preferred
                  We see then, that the shita mekubetzes argues with the Gemara! The chachmas Adam solves this contradiction:
                  (chachmas adam 28)



                  עובר בן ח' או בן ט'- Uber, [only] an 8 or 9 year old son
                  Only from 8 or 9 years old does a son need to pay for his parents Uber.




                  The Gemara is talking about a child under the age of 8, who is not expected to finance his parents Uber. The shita mekubetzes is talking about an older child, from 8/9 and up, who is expected to finance his parents Uber.
                  This is how we pasken (as there are no other sources that talk about it).
                  As for Lyft, it says in herchev davar al Bereshit (27):




                  מצות כיבוד אב כמו שאירע ליפת. - it is a mitzva of kibbud av va’em like what happened with Lyft.




                  We see from here that we learn Hilchos kibbud av va’em for Uber from Lyft! So for sure the Halachos will be the same!







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 2 hours ago









                  Lo aniLo ani

                  49213




                  49213